Timing set in 'fixed timing mode but changes when set to 'use table' ??? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-21-2013, 06:36 PM   #1
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Default Timing set in 'fixed timing mode but changes when set to 'use table' ???

Sorry if this is a dumb question but I've googled and searched this forum so if I've missed the info then my bad!

Anyway.

I got my pnp2 9093 for my mx5 today. 1995 1.6L eunos import.

First off the timing seemed WAY out - about 40-50 degrees BTDC but it was way off the dial so I couldn't say for sure. I adjusted it where I could but couldn't get it anywhere near 10BTDC. I found TDC with the dipstick and the spark plug removed then made a mark on the pulley where physical TDC was and then put the PNP2 into fixed timing mode and set it to 110BTDC from the new mark I made and the engine sounded like it was running fine. I then set it back into 'use table' mode and re-checked with the timing light to find it was at 20btdc? So, I set it to 'fixed timing mode' once again and it was still at a steady 10BTDC. Without changing anything I put it back in 'use table' and it was now at 0BTDC and when I opened the idle control valve more it went further down to about 10 AFTER TDC.

Any pointers as to whats happening and how to set it properly?

PS. If this is normal then let me know. As I said it could be a dumb question.

Thanks!
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:09 PM   #2
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Ok, I've done some more research and as fair as I can see, its expected to change as the revs rise and fall. Sorry for being such a dumbass. I'll check tomorrow with the timing light just to confirm for peace of mind.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:28 PM   #3
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Yes the timing will move with revs.

How does the crank pulley look? Any wobble? Have you read any about the key way getting out of shape?

Could be just a lack of knowledge on your part but could also be the motor too.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:34 PM   #4
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I've heard that the pulley can wander over time so the mark moves away from its original position and I have a shortnose engine in it at the moment. Crank pulley looks ok without any wobble but I'll double check that tmorrow to be sure. I don't suppose you can confirm whether the engine is safe to drive provided the timing is correct? I have set the req.fuel and configured the IAT so will it run safely on the basemap now until I get it on a rolling road for proper mapping?
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:21 PM   #5
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You can check if the crank pulley has moved on it rubber by taking out spark plug on number 1, you put something like a long screwdriver in the cylinder and turn the crank slowly until the screwdriver is as high as possible, which is top dead, obviously, then you compare that to the crank pulley.

Dann
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
You can check if the crank pulley has moved on it rubber by taking out spark plug on number 1, you put something like a long screwdriver in the cylinder and turn the crank slowly until the screwdriver is as high as possible, which is top dead, obviously, then you compare that to the crank pulley.

Dann
I already said that I've done that in the original post. I know where TDC is and in fixed timing mode its at 10btdc so it should be ok.

I've configured the injectors and the IAT but haven't changed anything else in the base map. Question is now, is it safe to use the car relatively gently?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:34 AM   #7
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when you take it off fixed timing, look at the spark advance gauge and confirm the timing [when looking with a light] is indicating what the MS is now demanding.


car should be safe on the basemap. Running autotune while you drive helps to massage the fuel table pretty quickly...
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:50 AM   #8
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Thanks braineack!
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:21 PM   #9
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Just to confirm incase it should change anything: I'm running a turbo too
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:27 PM   #10
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it doesnt.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:01 PM   #11
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Thanks again and sorry to be such a n00b
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:55 PM   #12
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As long as you're running bigger injectors. 1.8 injectors used to work when we were playing with fuel pressure for boost, some people don't realize that's not what MS does.

The base spark map is VERY conservative, but it's a great place to start, knowing there's nothing wrong with it. You're leaving power on the table, but I'd rather do that and know I'm safe while I tune fuel.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
As long as you're running bigger injectors. 1.8 injectors used to work when we were playing with fuel pressure for boost, some people don't realize that's not what MS does.

The base spark map is VERY conservative, but it's a great place to start, knowing there's nothing wrong with it. You're leaving power on the table, but I'd rather do that and know I'm safe while I tune fuel.
yeah thanks, thats what I'm aiming for. I have 550cc injectors and a walbro 255 so I shouldnt think supplying fuel will be a problem. I'm just glad to know I can use the base map while I learn more/save money for a protuner session.

Thanks guys.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:30 PM   #14
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So as it is at the moment I'm getting 6psi of boost which I am perfectly happy with for now. Can someone tell me whether I can drive the car normally without worrying? I mean the occasional mostly normal driving but a fair few foot to floor moments too. I know it is best to get it mapped properly but I'm not too sure of what I'm doing with that yet so I'd rather save my money to spend on putting it on a dyno and getting a pro tuner to set it up for ultimate peace of mind. Until then though, is it probably ok to drive it hard occasionally or should I wait to map it?

ps. go easy..
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:35 PM   #15
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I run a slightly modified base map for spark (aka, slightly less safe), an autotuned fuel map, and I race it.

The only thing you really need to do is verify that your fueling isn't too rich or too lean. A data log of you flooring it in 3rd or 4th from 1000rpm up to red line would be ideal, however slightly illegal.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:13 AM   #16
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Rules are made to be broken. I'll get one ASAP then
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:01 AM   #17
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So, hook up wideband controller and then run auto tuning for a bit and provide that goes to plan it should be good to go?
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:40 AM   #18
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Something like that. Be sure to calibrate your wideband properly if it is an Innovate.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:17 PM   #19
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Ok cool. Had a brief search online but is there a guide for the lc-1 set up for idiots like me? The innovate guide is detailed but I'm wondering if there is a 'put this wire here and this one there' kind of guide. Pictures are even better
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:30 PM   #20
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I wired my LC-1 into the hot lead for the power windows under the center console. It was convenient for me at the time.
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