2001 ls...MS?
12-04-2008, 12:06 AM
#1
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2001 ls...MS?
so i have a 2001 LS,
i'm currently saving for a beg-s kit, as basic as i can get (AFPR, no intercooling, no BOV, 5ish psi) and i was planning on going to the zoom3 from there. i read the 'things i regret post' or wtv, and more than one person said 'i wish i would have just megasquirted, before turbo set up' so taking you guys' experience and trying to save myself trouble i picked up researching MS's again.
so i've read and read, (even read most of maximum boost =P) including all of braineak's posts and i've searched enough to hate the search engine on this forum and all i've found is one person with a 2001 + that has a megasquirt, and that is compy. and me being the noob i am with under 15 posts i cant PM him so im askin everyone
First of all.. is it possible to megasquirt a 2001+ (i know VVT becomes a problem somewhere in there)
second of all is it worth megasquirting my car? or should i just go with the FPR and zoom 3 later? i can't and will never be able to afford a Xede or Hydra on top of the turbo kit im already buying
third.. can you just point me in teh right direction? give me some links, something to read that i cant learn about MSing my specific car? reading braneak's DIY MS jumps right into lingo, wiring...protos?...capacitors... and **** i cant understand.
i know this sounds nooby but i tried, just give me some direction please.
thanks in advance
i'm currently saving for a beg-s kit, as basic as i can get (AFPR, no intercooling, no BOV, 5ish psi) and i was planning on going to the zoom3 from there. i read the 'things i regret post' or wtv, and more than one person said 'i wish i would have just megasquirted, before turbo set up' so taking you guys' experience and trying to save myself trouble i picked up researching MS's again.
so i've read and read, (even read most of maximum boost =P) including all of braineak's posts and i've searched enough to hate the search engine on this forum and all i've found is one person with a 2001 + that has a megasquirt, and that is compy. and me being the noob i am with under 15 posts i cant PM him so im askin everyone
First of all.. is it possible to megasquirt a 2001+ (i know VVT becomes a problem somewhere in there)
second of all is it worth megasquirting my car? or should i just go with the FPR and zoom 3 later? i can't and will never be able to afford a Xede or Hydra on top of the turbo kit im already buying
third.. can you just point me in teh right direction? give me some links, something to read that i cant learn about MSing my specific car? reading braneak's DIY MS jumps right into lingo, wiring...protos?...capacitors... and **** i cant understand.
i know this sounds nooby but i tried, just give me some direction please.
thanks in advance
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12-04-2008, 12:28 AM
#2
Should be able to do a parallel install no problem. Easiest would be a MS 1 setup and use a CAS sensor snapped in the back of the factory exhaust cam.
It really depends on your goals. Are you looking for a bump in power or is this gonna be a 200+whp car? Or more? You could use a AFPR and no timing retard for a little bit of boost, if you used an intercooler.
It really depends on your goals. Are you looking for a bump in power or is this gonna be a 200+whp car? Or more? You could use a AFPR and no timing retard for a little bit of boost, if you used an intercooler.
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12-04-2008, 02:51 AM
#3
Im in pretty much the same boat:
I REAAAAAALLLLY want a parrallel ms to be able to run 15ish psi on the car, but am way too electronically challenged to build my own.
thought about the zoom3, aborted that idea simply because it costs over 700 for unit and harness, and controls only up to 8psi on stockers. weak
so for now till i get everything on and sorted out I picked up a voodoo box. same 8psi control on stock injectors, just a bit more crude and quite a bit less expensive (got it used).
I am JUST DYING for someone that is more knowledgeable to step up and start making parallel units, or diyautotune to start making pnp versions.......something has to happen because there is more and more people out there getting nb's and hydra/xede/aem standalone is just too damn expensive..
I am really eyeballing the aem fic though..seems like a reasonable unit. you can get one for 360 shipped, looks like its not too hard to wire in, and I played around with the software for it and while a little crude, it looks like it will get the job done. I've also noticed a few members on here using them with positive results, so thats a plus. some more stats from advertisement:
you should check that out man
in the meantime:
ANYONE HAS A BETTER SUGGESTION?
I REAAAAAALLLLY want a parrallel ms to be able to run 15ish psi on the car, but am way too electronically challenged to build my own.
thought about the zoom3, aborted that idea simply because it costs over 700 for unit and harness, and controls only up to 8psi on stockers. weak
so for now till i get everything on and sorted out I picked up a voodoo box. same 8psi control on stock injectors, just a bit more crude and quite a bit less expensive (got it used).
I am JUST DYING for someone that is more knowledgeable to step up and start making parallel units, or diyautotune to start making pnp versions.......something has to happen because there is more and more people out there getting nb's and hydra/xede/aem standalone is just too damn expensive..
I am really eyeballing the aem fic though..seems like a reasonable unit. you can get one for 360 shipped, looks like its not too hard to wire in, and I played around with the software for it and while a little crude, it looks like it will get the job done. I've also noticed a few members on here using them with positive results, so thats a plus. some more stats from advertisement:
Description:
The AEM F/IC is an economical solution for controlling fuel and ignition on vehicles that do not require stand-alone engine management, including variable cam timing engines like VTEC, VVTi and MiVEC.
The F/IC is a PC programmable unit that gives users with OBD-II vehicles and non-factory forced induction systems the ability to retard ignition and deliver accurate amounts of fuel without the need for outdated FMUs or “boost hiding” controllers. This system works parallel to the factory ECU preventing tuning limitations due to complex factory timing patterns and will not cause a check engine light (CEL).
* Works with latest OBD-II vehicles including variable valve control
* Variable Valve timing controller based on Engine RPM and Load
* Six (6) injector inputs with simulated injector load used when remapping OEM injectors
* Six (6) fuel injector controllers for either remapping of ECU output (+/- 100% trim) or as a stand-alone extra injector driver
* 21x17 maps with configurable load and RPM breakpoints
* Analog in/out for remapping / clamping MAF
* F/IC draws power from PC USB interface for quick and easy calibration changes
* 64kb on-board data logger
* Drives high impedence injectors or low impedence injectors with use of Peak & Hold Injector Driver Box
* Three (3) channels of timing retard
* Supports MAG or HALL sensor types
* On board 41PSIA (approx. 25PSI boost) manifold pressure sensor
* Windows-based Tuning Software
* Universal Piggy Back Fuel, Ignition Controller for OBD2 Vehicles - Will work on other applications as well. (Inquire within if unsure)
The AEM F/IC is an economical solution for controlling fuel and ignition on vehicles that do not require stand-alone engine management, including variable cam timing engines like VTEC, VVTi and MiVEC.
The F/IC is a PC programmable unit that gives users with OBD-II vehicles and non-factory forced induction systems the ability to retard ignition and deliver accurate amounts of fuel without the need for outdated FMUs or “boost hiding” controllers. This system works parallel to the factory ECU preventing tuning limitations due to complex factory timing patterns and will not cause a check engine light (CEL).
* Works with latest OBD-II vehicles including variable valve control
* Variable Valve timing controller based on Engine RPM and Load
* Six (6) injector inputs with simulated injector load used when remapping OEM injectors
* Six (6) fuel injector controllers for either remapping of ECU output (+/- 100% trim) or as a stand-alone extra injector driver
* 21x17 maps with configurable load and RPM breakpoints
* Analog in/out for remapping / clamping MAF
* F/IC draws power from PC USB interface for quick and easy calibration changes
* 64kb on-board data logger
* Drives high impedence injectors or low impedence injectors with use of Peak & Hold Injector Driver Box
* Three (3) channels of timing retard
* Supports MAG or HALL sensor types
* On board 41PSIA (approx. 25PSI boost) manifold pressure sensor
* Windows-based Tuning Software
* Universal Piggy Back Fuel, Ignition Controller for OBD2 Vehicles - Will work on other applications as well. (Inquire within if unsure)
in the meantime:
ANYONE HAS A BETTER SUGGESTION?
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12-04-2008, 10:34 AM
#4
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patmx5 -"You could use a AFPR and no timing retard for a little bit of boost, if you used an intercooler. "
-i understand that i can use the AFPR up to an extent, but only to like 8 psi correct? which would then top out at like 200whp when intercooled and everything tuned?
patmx5 -"Should be able to do a parallel install no problem. Easiest would be a MS 1 setup and use a CAS sensor snapped in the back of the factory exhaust cam."
-so your saying that is its possible and totally do-able. so if i follow brianeaks' guide for a 1999 i should be fine? or do i have to do anything specific because of the 2001? is there some guide i can folllow up to a certain point and then deal with vvt from there? i can't seem to get on 'megamanual.com' to get anymore information on building my own MS
patxm5- "It really depends on your goals. Are you looking for a bump in power or is this gonna be a 200+whp car? Or more?"
no, im not exactly looking for a just a bump in power, as most people say that once i turbo, im just gonna want more and more power and i know this is going to be true for me. i'm young and i pour all money money into my car so im gonna say im going to be looking for a little over 200whp, if i hit 200whp i will be happy, but im sure im going to want more after that goal is reached.
18psi thanks for the AEM F/IC tip, that is an option i've not explored. sounds interesting and a pretty good alternative to the expensive zoom3, it seems to me you were smart in going for the voodoo box as a temporarty solution. i'll do some research and look into the F/IC
any more info on MSing my '01 would be aweome
-i understand that i can use the AFPR up to an extent, but only to like 8 psi correct? which would then top out at like 200whp when intercooled and everything tuned?
patmx5 -"Should be able to do a parallel install no problem. Easiest would be a MS 1 setup and use a CAS sensor snapped in the back of the factory exhaust cam."
-so your saying that is its possible and totally do-able. so if i follow brianeaks' guide for a 1999 i should be fine? or do i have to do anything specific because of the 2001? is there some guide i can folllow up to a certain point and then deal with vvt from there? i can't seem to get on 'megamanual.com' to get anymore information on building my own MS
patxm5- "It really depends on your goals. Are you looking for a bump in power or is this gonna be a 200+whp car? Or more?"
no, im not exactly looking for a just a bump in power, as most people say that once i turbo, im just gonna want more and more power and i know this is going to be true for me. i'm young and i pour all money money into my car so im gonna say im going to be looking for a little over 200whp, if i hit 200whp i will be happy, but im sure im going to want more after that goal is reached.
18psi thanks for the AEM F/IC tip, that is an option i've not explored. sounds interesting and a pretty good alternative to the expensive zoom3, it seems to me you were smart in going for the voodoo box as a temporarty solution. i'll do some research and look into the F/IC
any more info on MSing my '01 would be aweome
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12-04-2008, 11:09 AM
#5
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Step back for a moment and contemplate what we're actually doing here. Visualize the stock ECU and the wiring coming out of it. All we really need to do is cut the wires going to the ECU for fuel and spark and redirect them to the MS. We also need to tap into a couple of other wires for power, ground, the CLT and TPS sensors, and optionally the clutch switch. And that's it. You don't even need to think about VVT or VTCS or any of the smog stuff, since the stock ECU is not being disturbed in those regards. Now, whether the ECU will start throwing codes as a result of being disconnected from the injectors and coils is another matter, and one I honestly can't address directly.
We can easily help out with the '01 wiring should you choose to go this route.
i can't seem to get on 'megamanual.com' to get anymore information on building my own MS
Also, here is the "good" documentation for the MS-Extra code for the MS1: MS-Extra Manual Index and the MS2: MS2/Extra Manual Index These cover all the advanced stuff that isn't in the main MegaManual.
I'm a bit surprised that with the growing acceptance of MS2 within the Miata community that folks are still installing NA CASs onto their NB engines. I'd suggest that you consider using the NBs factory crank and cam sensors. I don't think that the action of the VVT system should have any deleterious effect upon their operation of the SM2.
i'm young and i pour all money money into my car so im gonna say im going to be looking for a little over 200whp, if i hit 200whp i will be happy, but im sure im going to want more after that goal is reached.
BTW, best noob post ever.
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12-04-2008, 12:25 PM
#6
18psi thanks for the AEM F/IC tip, that is an option i've not explored. sounds interesting and a pretty good alternative to the expensive zoom3, it seems to me you were smart in going for the voodoo box as a temporarty solution. i'll do some research and look into the F/IC
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12-04-2008, 09:43 PM
#7
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thanks for kinda breakin it down for me joe,
that makes more sense to me, is there a way to fake out the ecu to make it not throw codes?
thats reassuring, i'm confident that i can do this myself, but if i hit a problem i'd be screwed alone lol
megamanual works now dunno whut the deal was, so i'll read megamanual and more specifically into the MS2 so i can use my stock crank and cam sensors
lol thanks, all the researching was worthwhile then
jaymx5- thanks for the offer, i will look into it and let you know if MSing proves to be over my head.
sorry this post was mostly me thinking out loud lol
any more input would be greatly appreciated
Step back for a moment and contemplate what we're actually doing here. Visualize the stock ECU and the wiring coming out of it. All we really need to do is cut the wires going to the ECU for fuel and spark and redirect them to the MS.
We can easily help out with the '01 wiring should you choose to go this route.
I'd suggest that you consider using the NBs factory crank and cam sensors. I don't think that the action of the VVT system should have any deleterious effect upon their operation of the SM2.
BTW, best noob post ever.
jaymx5- thanks for the offer, i will look into it and let you know if MSing proves to be over my head.
sorry this post was mostly me thinking out loud lol
any more input would be greatly appreciated
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12-04-2008, 10:00 PM
#8
If you do decide to go the ms route (which is great if you go through with it) this is what you need to do:
TAKE AS MANY DETAILED PICTURES AS POSSIBLE
and
POST/WRITE OUT EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO AND HOW THE PROJECT IS PROGRESSING.
I say this because if you end up doing it earlier than myself, me and the MANY nb owners on here thinking of this will thank you kindly. It will help everyone on the fence go through with it.
eventually even if I go with the fic I will end up with megasquirt. just a matter of time.
and since I'm a big ***** I am putting it off
TAKE AS MANY DETAILED PICTURES AS POSSIBLE
and
POST/WRITE OUT EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO AND HOW THE PROJECT IS PROGRESSING.
I say this because if you end up doing it earlier than myself, me and the MANY nb owners on here thinking of this will thank you kindly. It will help everyone on the fence go through with it.
eventually even if I go with the fic I will end up with megasquirt. just a matter of time.
and since I'm a big ***** I am putting it off
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12-04-2008, 11:49 PM
#12
diyautotune.com built your ms parallel unit? how????? on their site they dont list anything of the sort. did you contact them and had them make you one? how much? details details......PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
if anything pm me man, I am all ears.
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12-05-2008, 12:00 AM
#13
As for the f/ic, anyone looking to use it should see it as more of a cheap stepping stone than a complete engine management solution.
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12-05-2008, 12:30 AM
#16
You missed the post beneath that one. You also need: CAS from a '90-'97, some vacuum line, a long serial cable, a laptop computer, assorted wire, heat shrink, solder, soldering gun/iron, know how to use it. 
, lots of beer, lots of time, another car to drive in case you **** up, and -- the most important part (for me anyway) -- was having Paul & Friends around.
, lots of beer, lots of time, another car to drive in case you **** up, and -- the most important part (for me anyway) -- was having Paul & Friends around.
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12-05-2008, 12:47 AM
#19
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don't worry about thread jacking, its all pertinent. all this info is helping.
im as amped up as 18psi at the fact that you said
but that was for a msm, no vvt which again loops back to the problem we are trying to solve 
, unless DIY will build a paralell for the VVT?
as for jaymx5's post -
instead of spending money on the f/ic i think id just use the AFPR at low boost and intercool it until i can figure out a more stable and long term solution for an ecu
im as amped up as 18psi at the fact that you said
Yes. DIY is the "someone" you're looking for. They will build a parallel MS for your NB. I know because they built mine.
, unless DIY will build a paralell for the VVT?as for jaymx5's post -
As for the f/ic, anyone looking to use it should see it as more of a cheap stepping stone than a complete engine management solution.
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