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Trusted a Mechanic to Install and Tune MS2PNP, Lost 70hp
Hello! Unfortunately, I'm having issues converting to MS2PNP on my 99' (California Emissions) Miata. I am running a supercharger with the air being bypassed so there is no boost (trying to harm the engine as little as possible while still learning the ropes). I took my car to the shop located in Kansas City called KCMAXX Performance (don't go there IMO), and they installed the MS2 (with zip ties), and hooked up the GM IAT sensor. They also removed the piggyback system that hooked into the black and purple wire in the engine harness. From the looks of it the connections look good and no visible shorts, but I have not tested it with a meter. They dyno'd the car and it had severe driving and bogging issues but they sent it on 9 dyno runs of it stumbling and then gave me a car with 76hp 14 days later without a single call (the dyno graph also looked like the symbol on a diagram for a resistor). But, that's beside the point, currently, I feel the car is pretty dangerous to the engine to drive and just doesn't run right. Check out the MegaLogViewer pictures down below, initially I replaced spark plugs and plug wires with no difference. When researching I strayed away from it being the coil packs because there was no misfire and it runs smooth. But as you can see in the logs the IGN Load only goes up to about 98.87 at max, I'm thinking this is the problem. The car does feel like the fuel isn't being fully ignited, it feels like its blowing spark. My first thought is, the coils aren't receiving full voltage and the spark isn't sufficient due to a short in the harness? This is just speculation from another with a similar issue.
I would swap back to a stock ECU (should be plug & play, since MSPNP2 is plug & play) and see if you have issues. That will tell you whether they messed up the harness when removing the piggyback, the tune is bad, or if it's some other hardware issue.
Unfortunate that you paid someone to tune your car and this is what they gave you. The good news is now you get to learn how to tune your car correctly yourself. The first problem that needs addressing is your megasquirt does not have an AFR reading in the log you attached. I would recommend downloading a new base map for your car and not use what they gave you. I have attached a picture of your current Fuel VE Table. It is pretty crap and not at all what it should be, so with proper fueling, you should be able to restore the engine's performance. It will take quite a bit of reading to understand megasquirt but it is not that difficult. In the meantime, as acedeuce suggested going back to the stock ECU while you learn about megasquirt would be a good idea. I would not drive the car with this tune.
Nobody will ever tune your car as well as you will.
And do I understand that you're turning a supercharger but not actually using any of the compressed air? Surprised it still makes 70 horses...
98.87kpa is perfectly normal for our neck of the woods although today was a 100+kpa day. Even still a few KPA of losses from intake plumbing doesn't seem too unreasonable.
If you must pay someone to do it for you Jesse Prathers over in Topeka has a dyno and does nothing but Miatas. Even still, I'd recommend doing the tuning yourself. Dyno time is maybe 5% of a megasquirt tune, unless you find a load bearing unicorn and someone who knows how to use it.
Unfortunate that you paid someone to tune your car and this is what they gave you. The good news is now you get to learn how to tune your car correctly yourself. The first problem that needs addressing is your megasquirt does not have an AFR reading in the log you attached. I would recommend downloading a new base map for your car and not use what they gave you. I have attached a picture of your current Fuel VE Table. It is pretty crap and not at all what it should be, so with proper fueling, you should be able to restore the engine's performance. It will take quite a bit of reading to understand megasquirt but it is not that difficult. In the meantime, as acedeuce suggested going back to the stock ECU while you learn about megasquirt would be a good idea. I would not drive the car with this tune.
Forgot to mention this, I have an MTX-L but my options connector is on the way because I couldn't get the stock plug to work with MS. So I'm not driving the car till then, AFR is high 13 on tip-in and goes down to 12.2-12.4 by 5500rpm.
I think I'm going to put in the stock ECU to see if it changes but I want to still use the MS. I have learned a good amount about tuning and once I get the wideband I could take a few weeks to figure it out as I have another car to drive right now. Any idea though on what might be causing such a weird issue? It feels like the car isn't igniting the fuel all the way, fuel pressure is around 57 in the line, and when I loaded the miata base map it went super super rich like 11 at idle and that at low rpm driving. So got that off of their ASAP.
Depending on how you bypassed the supercharger there could still be parasitic losses that are causing the power to be down. The base map is just to get your car to start. From there you will need to tune everything yourself.
Nobody will ever tune your car as well as you will.
And do I understand that you're turning a supercharger but not actually using any of the compressed air? Surprised it still makes 70 horses...
98.87kpa is perfectly normal for our neck of the woods although today was a 100+kpa day. Even still a few KPA of losses from intake plumbing doesn't seem too unreasonable.
If you must pay someone to do it for you Jesse Prathers over in Topeka has a dyno and does nothing but Miatas. Even still, I'd recommend doing the tuning yourself. Dyno time is maybe 5% of a megasquirt tune, unless you find a load bearing unicorn and someone who knows how to use it.
70hp is what it dyno'd at at 7psi... I have it making no boost by bypassing the air currently because I'd rather tune the car myself without boost and cause possible damage because I'm a big noob. From what I've seen and my experience the S/C only takes away 10-20, on the stock ecu I bypassed it one time and it felt exactly like a stock miata, almost twice as fast as it is now.
Depending on how you bypassed the supercharger there could still be parasitic losses that are causing the power to be down. The base map is just to get your car to start. From there you will need to tune everything yourself.
I think I'm not explaining it right, the car Dyno'd at 76hp at 7psi. Also, I have driven the car with it bypassed and it wasn't this bad. I understand that even the base map is far from a tune, but don't you see that there is some sort of issue occurring mechanically or electronically to have the base map be incredibly rich in a car with a supercharger even when its making boost.
Ok, so I did some digging in the log I recorded. I have a lost sync reason 32. After looking this up it means both the cams are not being seen and is a specific 99-00 Miata issue. I've seen others say its a firmware issue or could be an issue with the crank position sensor. I imagine the shop probably could have fucked up either one of these. Does anyone know about this issue? I'm going to continue to look up solutions for it and try it tomorrow.
You aren't using sequential injection or ignition so a cam signal really doesn't matter, if that's even what it is. It could be a residual sync loss from a bad start or even stopping and restarting. Either way, you didn't log the sync loss in that log so no idea what caused it. I bet it's nothing.
You have "use extra drivers" selected, but are they configured properly inside the DIY?
I understand that even the base map is far from a tune, but don't you see that there is some sort of issue occurring mechanically or electronically to have the base map be incredibly rich in a car with a supercharger even when its making boost.
You're not understanding. The basemap is made to be rich. The basemap is doing exactly what it should be. Did the car run correctly with the stock ECU and piggyback? I am assuming yes because you didn't mention otherwise. That would mean there is no mechanical or electrical problem with your car, it's just your tune. In the first post, you mentioned that there are no misfires and that it runs smoothly, so why do you think there is a mechanical or an electrical problem?
You mentioned that they removed the piggyback system that tapped into the black and purple wires in the engine harness. If those were the only changes made it should be pretty easy to verify that your harness is back to 100 percent stock. All that is left to do is to verify your megasquirt is set up correctly for your chassis, and then tune it. Stop making guesses on what is wrong with your car when you have that horrible tune loaded on it. If it runs like crap, its probably just the crap tune. Go back to the basemap and start from there. You're current tune has aggressive timing in the 100kpa row, I can't speak for the boost cells but I would not trust that shop's timing map. The basemap has very conservative timing that will not easily blow your engine when you are learning to tune it.
As was previously mentioned your tune set up for sequential injection, but the megasquirt also needs to be wired for sequential injection. I believe you will also need timed fuel injection with sequential fuel injection, your tune is currently set to untimed injection.
So I'm not driving the car till then, AFR is high 13 on tip-in and goes down to 12.2-12.4 by 5500rpm.
I think I'm going to put in the stock ECU to see if it changes but I want to still use the MS. I have learned a good amount about tuning and once I get the wideband I could take a few weeks to figure it out as I have another car to drive right now. Any idea though on what might be causing such a weird issue? It feels like the car isn't igniting the fuel all the way, fuel pressure is around 57 in the line, and when I loaded the miata base map it went super super rich like 11 at idle and that at low rpm driving. So got that off of their ASAP.
Still need some more clarification on this statement. You say you're not driving the car, but then you indicate AFR #'s on tip in and at 5500 RP and then you also mention low RPM driving? Like just driving around the neighborhood? Are you "not" driving the car as in taking it to work? Also I'm still not sure how you got those AFR #'s without a wideband attached.
57 PSI for fuel pressure should be fine. Fuel pressure for the NB1 is 60 PSI.
Originally Posted by Trenton Chrisco
I think I'm not explaining it right, the car Dyno'd at 76hp at 7psi. Also, I have driven the car with it bypassed and it wasn't this bad. I understand that even the base map is far from a tune, but don't you see that there is some sort of issue occurring mechanically or electronically to have the base map be incredibly rich in a car with a supercharger even when its making boost.
Do you mean when it's NOT making boost?
Originally Posted by dglb99
As was previously mentioned your tune set up for sequential injection, but the megasquirt also needs to be wired for sequential injection. I believe you will also need timed fuel injection with sequential fuel injection, your tune is currently set to untimed injection.
I don't believe so as NB's should already be wired for sequential injection. I have an NB with a MSpnp2 and I didn't have to wire up anything for sequential injection, although it does need to be set up correctly. If I recall it was only NA's that needed some extra wiring for sequential injection, but correct me if I'm wrong.
To OP, where did you get your basemap from? In my opinion, sequential injection isn't something to worry about right now. As suggested, start with the basemap and go from there. Also it should be common sense, but I'll re-iterate anyway when doing any tuning or changing of any parameters, do one thing at a time to be able to rule out issues and such and be able to revert back or what not.
I had Jesse Prather tune mine as well he did a pretty good job. I called lots of places in KC and no one wanted to mess with MS. "Its not a real ECM, we can set you up with......." whatever ECM they like to sell and tune.
02-20-2020, 04:17 PM
Trusted a Mechanic to Install and Tune MS2PNP, Lost 70hp
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