Possible to tune Megasquirt with wideband alone? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-26-2008, 10:30 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Killen, AL, 35645
Posts: 731
Total Cats: 2
Default Possible to tune Megasquirt with wideband alone?

Hey guys, well recently I heard the remarks that a typical dyno tune will cost me from 800-2000 dollars. That's just...omg... Is it possible for me to conservatively tune in my car for 12 psi with a wideband 02 sensor. If possible, does anybody have any MSQ files running an IAT sensor with tuning for a Garrett GT2860RS with 460cc injectors on a 1997 Mazda Miata.
Cody Strife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 10:52 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

The MSNPNP timing map is pretty conservative, that would be something you can start with, just listen for knock. Then tune your afr's with the wideband. 80% of the forum tunes their cars on the street, just don't let it knock.
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2008, 11:02 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Strife View Post
I heard the remarks that a typical dyno tune will cost me from 800-2000 dollars.
That's ******' retarded (not you, but it does take that long when you start from scratch). You REALLY need to learn about AUTOTUNE, DATALOGGING, and MEGALOGVIEWER VE table analysis and you'll be able to get yourself 90% there on your own.

Somebody will send you their fuel/spark MAP's that you can use for a baseline. I run a much smaller T25 or you could have mine. Then you need to dedicate a couple hours to teaching yourself about the 3 things I mentioned above. You need a VERY LONG straight road that you can get out on and just drive, with places every 10 miles or so that you can pull over and check your data.

Once you have a fairly flat AF curve at WOT, with good transition into boost at all RPM's, you might want to invest in an hour on the dyno. I spent an afternoon learing how the various "tune" things in MS worked, put 100 miles on it at all sorts of boost/RPM settings and got the thing running pretty good just using AUTOTUNE. Then on the dyno I datalogged each run, backing up the info with what the dyno instruments were saying, and ran the pulls through Megalogviewer while the car was cooling down... then made minor changes (mostly to SMOOTH out the fuel transitions from cel to cel) and it took 8 pulls to get everything where I wanted it.

And why isn't your location in your profile NEWB? Maybe somebody smart on MS local to you would volunteer to help you if they knew where you were!
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2008, 12:51 AM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,900
Total Cats: 0
Default

If you pay more than $500 for a dyno tun you are getting ripped off. The dude that tuned mine normally charges $400 and he deals with cars that cost well over $100K on a daily basis.
Arkmage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2008, 09:21 AM   #5
Supporting Vendor
 
Matt Cramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,264
Total Cats: 51
Default

Fuel can be tuned with just a wideband, but getting a perfect timing curve without a dyno is very difficult.
Matt Cramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2008, 10:21 AM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (21)
 
paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Point Pleasant, NJ
Posts: 2,957
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Cramer View Post
Fuel can be tuned with just a wideband, but getting a perfect timing curve without a dyno is very difficult.

which is why i gotta get my *** down to DIY this spring
paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2008, 11:01 AM   #7
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
If you pay more than $500 for a dyno tun you are getting ripped off. The dude that tuned mine normally charges $400 and he deals with cars that cost well over $100K on a daily basis.
$900 is the cheapest I've found, one guy wanted $2000, and others refused to tune it. Others still were really awesome and let me know that if I had to change plugs or whatever, they were going to charge me an additional hour of labor. Even more exciting though, I only found 2 shops which did NOT insist on adjusting cold start and "checking my settings." Luckily I found a LS1 tuner who said to bring it in, work megasquirt, and he'll work the dyno for $400.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2008, 05:57 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,480
Total Cats: 3
Default

my guy charges me couple hundred bux... and he tunes vipers all day long
UrbanSoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2008, 06:34 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,900
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Luckily I found a LS1 tuner who said to bring it in, work megasquirt, and he'll work the dyno for $400.
Yeah, my guy is an LSx dude as well. The domestic shops seem to be cheaper and do a better job that most of the import shops around here.
Arkmage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 04:25 AM   #10
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los angeles, San diego
Posts: 89
Total Cats: -22
Default

i street tuned my evo forever its actually better to tune a car on the street since the load conditions on a dyno are so different. im not familiar with MS but i am learning about it. i have been reading a lot about how people just listen for knock....dont these cars have a knock sensor? or has anyone ever installed one
jdmcwestevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 07:24 AM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
$900 is the cheapest I've found, one guy wanted $2000, and others refused to tune it. Others still were really awesome and let me know that if I had to change plugs or whatever, they were going to charge me an additional hour of labor.
Those guys simply don't want to do it. It's not that they can't though.
They're trying to run you off.

I've been watching the Megasquirt thing grow and am noticing a distinct lack of interest with most shops. Bottom line, since you can build one for under $300 and a 90% tune on the street with relative ease using the Datalogging and Autotune with the included free and easy-to-use software, why even go to a dyno? That coupled with the fact that you can just ask for a map through a forum and have somebody ship you a 95% tune through email... kinda makes spending a couple hundred on a dyno a little ridiculous.

I ran Scotts T3s60 MSQ on my little T25 for 4 months with zero issues. My 8 pulls on the dyno netted me 5whp on low boost and 8whp on high boost. The only thing I didn't have was a decent spark table... but now that I've got one of those, who needs a damn dyno except for bragging rights if you've got a wideband?
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 12:08 PM   #12
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

I wish there was some good documentation on tuning spark with EGT. Kind of like a correlation, like for example "x deg. F EGT off peak + y AFR showed a z% deviation from MBT" would be ideal but I suppose that's not possible to do.
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 12:45 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Do a search on 'knocksense'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmcwestevo View Post
i street tuned my evo forever its actually better to tune a car on the street since the load conditions on a dyno are so different. im not familiar with MS but i am learning about it. i have been reading a lot about how people just listen for knock....dont these cars have a knock sensor? or has anyone ever installed one
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 02:35 PM   #14
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,353
Total Cats: 1,319
Default

You can't just tune spark to the pre-knock limit, though. As Matt said, it's nigh impossible to do a good spark tune without a dyno.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Any pnp megasquirt for 2001 Big_gumby WTB 0 09-30-2015 04:34 PM
1996 Turbo Build Goldwar DIY Turbo Discussion 2 09-29-2015 10:20 AM
wiring wideband ground to battery terminal btabor ECUs and Tuning 10 09-28-2015 06:33 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:45 AM.