Tuner Studios DIYmsPNP Timing Question - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-22-2011, 03:33 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default Tuner Studios DIYmsPNP Timing Question

Hi All,
I about to go attempt to get my 91 stock miata (except for the wideband LC1) started with the DIYmsPNP that I built, but I have a few questions regarding timing. Firstly, I didn't see a write up similar to Brian's regarding setting base timing. In tuner studios, does "trigger angle/offset" provide the same function as "Trigger Angle (deg)" in megatune? That is, do I fix the timing at 10 degrees, then adjust the "trigger angle/offset" to get the car to 10 deg.

My second question is regarding the "spark output". The basemap I downloaded from DIY uses "Going High (Inverted)", but I thought I read elsewhere that I should use "Going Low (normal)" when using the stock igniters? I have the stock igniters, but the car for basemap I downloaded supposedly uses stock compatible igniters. Thanks for your help!
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 03:35 PM   #2
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

1. correct.

2. it has to do with the drivers. the DIYPNP needs going high.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 03:41 PM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

Wow. Thanks for the quick response. I guess I've got nothing else holding me back right now. Time to see if she will start! Thanks Brain.
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 05:24 PM   #4
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjoudrey View Post
Hi All,
I about to go attempt to get my 91 stock miata (except for the wideband LC1) started with the DIYmsPNP that I built, but I have a few questions regarding timing. Firstly, I didn't see a write up similar to Brian's regarding setting base timing.


http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...ing_how_to.htm


Quote:
My second question is regarding the "spark output". The basemap I downloaded from DIY uses "Going High (Inverted)", but I thought I read elsewhere that I should use "Going Low (normal)" when using the stock igniters? I have the stock igniters, but the car for basemap I downloaded supposedly uses stock compatible igniters. Thanks for your help!
The correct output is going high/inverted when using the DIYPNP with a stock Miata coil.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 05:30 PM   #5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

Well, it started but didn't run. I attached my datalog of starting. The engine quit after about 2 seconds. A few things though:

1) even though I know not to do this, and I wrote a not to not do this, I still forgot to remove the stig sig fuse initially. Took about 2 seconds to realize this, after powering up the ms. No idea if I'm totally porked or not now, though it did start after I removed the fuse (after messing with timing).

2) I was trying to cheat and not install the GM IAT and hope that it would be okay. Maybe that was the problem, so, I started to try to wire that bad larry in. Unfortunately, my MAF has a 7 pin connector on it, no idea why.

In the DIY write up it says to use pins 3 and 4. In my wiring diagram for a 91-93 miata, assuming the pin numbers go from left to right, I'd use the light green/red wire and the black/light green wire??
Attached Files
File Type: msl startingLog.msl (53.3 KB, 55 views)
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 05:39 PM   #6
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

well you killed the fuel pump driver.

you must jump fp and gnd in the diagnostics box in order for the car to run now. and need to replace the tip125 on the high side driver circuit in the meantime.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 05:41 PM   #7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

That sounds easy enough. Thanks.
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 07:10 PM   #8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

That got me running again. Thanks. Unfortunately, it runs WAY better without the MAP connected. The diyautotune site didn't say that their basemap was using anything other than the mpx4250, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to calibrate the MAP just in case.
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 07:53 PM   #9
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

You absolutely have to calibrate the map and temperature sensors.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 08:36 PM   #10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

The base map doesn't do that? I calibrated the coolant sensor anyway, and loaded the calibration for the mpx4250, but that didn't help. Still haven't figured out how to wire the GM sensor in. I need a better wiring diagram for my car. On the DIYautotune website, it shows a 5 pin connector for the MAF, I have a 7 pin, so I'm not sure which pins are the temp sensor yet.

It still runs better without the MAP connected. As soon as I connect it, the AFR readings go EXTREMELY lean, as in low 20's. Actually RPMs pick up first, it sounds real smooth, then it drops down to 600-750 rpm, and AFR's go nuts.

Any suggestions? Who else has a 7 pin connector on their MAF?
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 09:01 PM   #11
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

(zack morris's phone)

Did you use the 460cc baseman with stock injectors? What's the red_fuel set to?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 09:14 PM   #12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

Nope. I used the 240cc, req_fuel is 11.2. I'm wondering if the fact that I'm not using my IAT properly is screwing me over. It reads 70deg F when nothing is connected, but it's much closer to 50deg F. That would make it run lean, I think, but I don't think it would make it run that lean would it?
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 09:49 PM   #13
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

Finally found a diagram for the correct wiring for the IAT with a 7 pin connector (pins 1 and 5, or the red with green strip and large black wire with a green strip). That didn't solve my issue though. Oh, and my IAC is very loud when the key is in RUN for some reason. Is this normal? Should it be trying to operate while the engine is not running?

I attached my .msq and 2 logs, one with the MAP one without. If you have a chance, I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks.
Attached Files
File Type: msq base_240injectors_noBoostControl.msq (79.0 KB, 71 views)
File Type: msl withAIT_withMAP.msl (93.1 KB, 44 views)
File Type: msl withAIT_withoutMAP.msl (119.3 KB, 50 views)

Last edited by kjoudrey; 04-22-2011 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Added info on IAC
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 11:13 AM   #14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

Is it a problem if my ECU definition in Tuner Studios is "MS2extra Serial310" but the basemap I am using is "MS2Extra Rel 3.0.3s"? So far the only difference I notice when loading it with the Serial310 is that there is a PWM setting of "Leave Valve Closed above (RPM)" currently set to 1500, where as I did not see that setting when I load the msq with tunerstudios assuming the 3.0.3s release.
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 01:18 PM   #15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

Brain, you might have been on to something with the required fuel question. When I bump the required fuel up to 15, it idles, pretty damn smoothly actually. There are still plenty of issues though, for instance, once the IAC valve goes to 15 steps, then my idle jumps up to about 1400 rpm. I think I've gotta figure that out next.
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 02:08 PM   #16
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

did you install the diode for the IAC?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 02:22 PM   #17
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

Yup, in the R5 location, left hand side in the R5 hole, right hand side (banded end) in the 12v location.
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 06:37 PM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 138
Total Cats: 0
Default

I have a MS2 running the same basemap, it ran horribly lean with a req fuel of 11.2.
Got considerably better at 13, this was verified with 2 different widebands.
I double checked this with my old MS1 chip too. A lot leaner with same req fuel and ve values. Maybe the MS2 calculates fuel loads differently?

I just figured Australian air needed more fuel
ampz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 06:43 PM   #19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 67
Total Cats: -1
Default

I ended up using 12.7 and richening my VE table at idle. Now it looks like I have IAC troubles. Did you have to change any PWM settings for your idle control over the basemap?
kjoudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 10:01 PM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 138
Total Cats: 0
Default

Hornetball's Writeup
Made the most sense to me and got my idle running well.
I ended up with 12 degrees at idle with 16 a/c advance.
I ended up with 15% idle base and relatively small pwm settings of 8, 16, 0.
ampz is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
MSPNPPro-MM0105: Coolant Temperature Output slomiata MEGAsquirt 5 10-07-2015 02:11 PM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:26 AM.