Upgrade to MS2, now no worky
 

So I have broken my car. Shame it ran pretty good before.

I have a ver3.0 board, self built 2 years ago closely following the brain how to here. So I bought an ms2 daughterboard, swapped it today. Changed the spark wires on the board to flip them, and also removed the old resister setup and changed it to Joe Perez's new transistor setup at the led's. I have also made all the changes to the board as listed on the miataturbo wiki article on MS2 builds. changed the tach input, changed R12 to a 470ohm and removed the two jumpers next to it.

So asside from my shift light and EBC bits it now is exactly like the board pictured as standalone http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/ms2-a


And of course I can't get the damn thing to fire at all.

I am doing a bit of geusswork as to the software setup. I have loaded ms2extra 3.1.0 and have tried both 4g63 and CAS 4/1 Frankly I am not sure which I should be using, both seem to get recommended it various threads.
It doesnt even try to fire, I am not sure if there is any spark at all. I will pull a plug tomorrow and have a look to see if they are firing at all.

I suppose what really need is an MSQ I can load then just drop in my fuel and spark maps and reset req. fuel. Anyone want to pony one up?

Anyone have one to offer or steer me in the right direction?

Been doing a bit more reading.

1. I unplugged the ignitor, not the actual coils when burning the firmware. Have I cooked the coils or is it all the same so long as one of the two is unplugged?

2. could I not just download and use the mspnp sample tune from diyautotune to get it up and running? is there any difference between the setup we are using (true diy) verses the board they use from a software standpoint?

mspnp basemap, no. DIYPNP basemap, yes.

http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/ap...93-16b6-mt.zip

It's the ignitor that burns out and that sits before the coils so your fine. Later cars have the ignitor built into the coils that's all

Can you confirm if you get rpms in your tuning software?

Thats what I meant, sorry, DIYPNP.

Just tried it and it seems to have made thing much worse. tunerstudio now gives me a popup on startup to say the boost control pins are not configured?! and the tach is stuck at 65k rpm, and the tps no longer responds (I have a real one), even when i try to calibrate. IIn cfact all the dash gauges in TS are now stuck at unrealistic figures. Before it all looked ok, just wouldnt start.

Its late, I give up. Try again tomorrow.

open to any ideas

We were typing at the same time. No I have yet to get any response to cranking in TS or on the cars dash tach. No rpms at all.

No rpms means it'll never ever ever start.

Using the DIY map gives you a pin conflict, disable boost control for now or change the pin it's using, its this which is giving you 65k rpms - it's a feature to earn you of a conflict.

If you have never gotton rpms start checking your circuits...

Oh and no rpms on the dash means you've burnt out your ignitor. That dial is independent of the MS...

Also have you calibrated the temp sensors?

Well if the MS is not triggering the ignitor, then the dash gauge cannot receive a signal. I'll cling to that hope.

I'll try turning off the boost control and look over the input mods again in the morning. At this rate I am about ready to switch back to ms1 and live without EBC.

iirc there is a jumper needed to be done to make use of MS2 chip vs MS1 chip.

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=101&t=31532

Looks like the boost control setting is causing part of the problem.

Check your battery voltage as well. I had an issue with a low battery where it would crank but slowly, below the 300 rpm cranking speed. Between 250 and 275 rpm. Battery had a static voltage between 10.5 and 11 volts. It was causing it not to sync. As soon as I put in a fresh battery and got the cranking speed up, it synced and fire right up.

I'm not sure if it was the speed at which it was cranking or the voltage itself but it was causing a no start condition. Not saying that's what it is but it may be worth checking just to rule out that possibility.

Doesn't work like that sorry. Your ignitor for whatever reason is now dead.

Techsalvager, the mod your on about is to enable the outputs on MSII, it won't actually stop it working.

Well damn. It was unplugged up untill the last moment so no idea how I killed it. Suppose i will have to do the cop conversion now as well.

Hi mate, sorry to hear you're having problems.

Just wondering if any of the jumpers might be the problem (TSEL to OPTO OUT) or something might need swapping about:confused:

p.s the capacitor for cops is readily available on Ebay, I'll need to get one too sometime. I'll drop you the link later.

You will still be getting RPMs into the Tuner Studio Software even if the ignitor was dead. Make certain you upgraded successfully before you go doing anything else.

The ignitor just sends the spark to the coils.

Right. this will be a bit long winded.

As I was basically getting nowhere and now the ignitor had fallen into question, I gave up and converted back to MS1 if only to check the ignitor. Changed all the mods back except for the newer, better transistor/Joe Perez coil driver mod. It now runs again. But the dash tach is dead. As I understand it this means the ignitor is half cooked? safe to drive like this? (I do have a 2nd car). Otherwise it works just like it used too. Even the shift light is still there.

So I suspect I will need to get a new (or rather new to me) ignitor, and try again next weekend. In the mean time I have a few questions if you guys are willing to humor me.

As I understand it, the change to the ver 3.0 board to go from MS1 to MS2 are as follows.

Remove the old tach input mod; IAC1A to processor and 5v thru a couple of resistors.
Replace this with a wire going to JS10 (no resistor) and a 470r from JS10 to 5v

remove 470r from d1 to u5
remove jumpers at D1 and D2
install 5v to c30

connect tachselect to XG1

and of course swap the coil drivers around.

So what about the 1uf filter from JS8 to ground? leave it? I did, could this have been a problem?

Also I have TACHSELECT jumpered to OPTOIN. Leave this too?

I have a shift light wired to JS8 and EBC wired to JS7. The shift light works and still does. The EBC I wired in when I built this thing 2 years ago then after reading how useless it was with MS1 I didn't bother with it untill I upgraded. It is 1/2 the reason I am doing all of this. So I have never used it. Are these two pins the same on MS2? or could this have been causing my problem?

And finally (it never ends) I broke one of the pins off of one of the ms2 daughtercards I have in front of me (one of them is not mine) I presume, once I get this working with the good one, I can just add a jumper from the top of the daughtercard, thru a proto hole, to the same pin underneath and suffer no ill effects with the broken one?

Thanks for all the help guys, I am starting to get a grip on all this again, amazing how much you forget in 2 years.

TACHSELECT jumpered to OPTOIN.

I would be tempted to take it out, doesn't appear on my planned build but may depend on what extras you have added.

1uf filter from JS8 to ground, same as above.

All the other jumpers sound correct to do.
pics on my thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/ms3-ms3x-mk1-1-8-a-56159/

Yeah I am beginning to think the 1uf filter may have been causing the trouble. Have another ignitor on the way to me now, so may give all this another try next weekend.

You need tachselect to opto in.

Remove the cap, mine wouldn't rev above 3k with it fitted, others have been fine, could be yours was filtering too much of the signal.

Yes it's fine to drive the car with the ignitor not producing a tach signal, just be wary as the end is nigh for the ignitor. My mates lasted a few weeks whilst I sourced a new one.

No, you DONT want tachselect to OPTIN.

you want Tachselect to XG1.

Remove the cap to JS8, that was a filter on your previous tach input mods, you do not need to.

TSEL to OPTOOUT remains.




so like I thought, you did the mods wrong: sounds you had tachselect to OPTIN AND XG1.

Doh yes sorry, I've not engaged my brain at all today, ignore me Brain is right.

Well actually I did remove that little jumper to optin towards the end and it still didn't work. But for a while yes, both were connected. Next time I will just strip all the mods off the board and to them all again for MS2. this time it was remove one mod then put in the MS2 version, repeat. Obviously this led to things being missed. Frankly its all looking pretty sloppy in there at this point so I wouldn't mind cleaning it all up anyway.

So do the shift light and EBC ouputs remain the same from one processor to the other?

I am leaning towards the filter being the problem. But like I said I will get the new ignitor in and try again next weekend. on that note, now that I have the twin transistor spark output mod done there is no chance I will cook the ignitor again short of pissing in the ms right?

Well you're gonna loose your shift lights, MS2 doesn't have the same option

With the twin transistor you can still cook the ignitor if you don't remember to invert the output in the tuning software!

most outputs can stay the same. obviously anything on JS10 needs to move. but it sounds like everything can remain.

It runs. Using this thread-

https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...&highlight=xg1

I managed to sort it out. As you suspected Brain the mods were not all correct. Still a couple of jumpers in place that no longer needed to be there.

So on to new problems. First off my LC1 and TS do not agree on what the current AFR is. TS reads it at around .8 to 1 unit too high (or the LC-1 DB gauge is reading low). I calibrated it, and they are all sharing the same ground point (MS, LC-1, and the DB gauge). I have been thru the program procedure in TS and with the LC-1 about a dozen times each now and no dice.

As an aside I have never in the 3 years I have owned the thing, been able to get the LC-1 to talk to "logworks" only tried again today to pull reading straight off the unit and establish whether the problem lies with the gauge or with TS.

Any Idea's?

And the larger problem is that now none of my mods work. I am, and always have been, a bit over my head with the input/output mods and frankly it took ages to get them working on the old MS1. So while I have your attention, perhaps you guys can point me in the right direction now. I have three things going on, a shift light, EBC, and the clutch switch input for launch control. they are wired/setup as follows

L/C- I cut off the old output from the clutch switch (This is a JDM car so I only have one clutch switch, the one that reads at the top of the pedals throw) and ran a new wire over to the MS (So that the Nuetral switch would not be involved). So it supplies ground when the pedal is pressed. it goes into the MS via IAC1b and from there is wired to JS7. I also added the jumper on the MS2 Daughterboard from JP4 to pin 10. Input in TS is set to PE0/JS7. LC doesnt seem to work at all.

Shift Light- It gets power from Ign. and the ground lead is run into the MS thru SPR4 and is wired to the flat side of D15. Q7 has been upgraded to a PN2222a. D15 is still in place. In output settings in TS I have set PM4 enabled. rpm<2000 power on=0 trigger val=1 (tried those both ways). The shift light in this case has 4 surface mounted LED's on a small PCB in the housing, not a tail light bulb like the Autometer ones. It turned on as soon as I plugged it in and wouldn't turn off. As I was playing with settings it flickered twice then went out. Hasnt worked since. I unplugged it. WHat burnt out and what have I wired wrong.

The EBC I have not tested at all. It is wired as per the DIY how too on this forum with the input going to JS0. I expect it will work but given my luck up to this point I am not holding my breath.

Fixed the shift light. Moved the input, and reused the old setup I had in the proto area based on the fans mod from the diy thread. So thats at least fixed.

And the launch control is now fixed as well. Turns out the switch was dead. The little spring inside had rusted and collapsed. So a ball point pen had to die and now the switch works again. and so launch control works too.

Perhaps in future I should wait a bit longer before posting these problems up here.

at any rate that leaves just the lc1 discrepancy, and that has been beaten to death here so I suppose I will have to go run a 0 gauge ground wire for the fucking thing and see if that helps.

Also the idle valve sounds like your mothers vibrator whenever I plug it in, and it stalls the engine. But with it unplugged it runs great so that can wait, while I read up on tuning the damn thing

try .22v = 7.35 5v = 22.39 (make sure the AFR values are correct.)

Just did. A bit better but still of by .5-.8 Where are you getting those numbers? you know something I don't? This was never a problem with MS1 so its a real mystery why it has popped up now. Both LC1 grounds and the ground for its gauge are soldered to one of the ground wires at the ecu. they were on a ring terminal under the hood before at the engine ground strap (cleaned up things a bit during the upgrade). I moved it to the ecu ground as I have heard, since I originally installed this, that it is better there. Is one of the ecu grounds better than the other? or should I bite the bullet and run a damn wire to the throttle body, or back out to the ground strap.

cuase thats what i have to do. move it up .22v from 0.

Ah, well that makes sense. Well that is what mine is set to now. I'll move the damned ground back to where it was in the morning and try again, but it is now dark out and i have neighbors (and no muffler) so I am done for today.

But while I have your attention, DO I need to alter anything inside the MS to run Low imp injectors with ms2? or can I just remove the resistors and change the settings to PWM?

Thanks for all your help by the way.

its still not recommended. if you have to, use Jean's peak and hold board.

Or fix the board as per this thread http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...+impedance+mod

Jeans driver board will be much easier though.

Blaize, how did you fix your shift light? Or do you just have it as an on/off light at a certain RPM rather than the graduated lights that MS1 offered?

This is our recommended mod if noise caused by excessive low-z flyback spikes is experienced

This mod is not commonly needed. External p&h equipment is also acceptable.

Not a big issue, I'll leave the resistors in for the time being, and add the peak and hold board when I get around to it. Looks like tuning the idle valve is going to keep me busy for a while anyway.

No it is just a single red shift light. Sequential lights never interested me.

Read the large thread on this board started by 'Greg G', it's very useful for tuning the idle valve.