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Old 05-14-2011, 04:37 PM   #1
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Default Upgrade to MS2, now no worky

So I have broken my car. Shame it ran pretty good before.

I have a ver3.0 board, self built 2 years ago closely following the brain how to here. So I bought an ms2 daughterboard, swapped it today. Changed the spark wires on the board to flip them, and also removed the old resister setup and changed it to Joe Perez's new transistor setup at the led's. I have also made all the changes to the board as listed on the miataturbo wiki article on MS2 builds. changed the tach input, changed R12 to a 470ohm and removed the two jumpers next to it.

So asside from my shift light and EBC bits it now is exactly like the board pictured as standalone http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/ms2-a


And of course I can't get the damn thing to fire at all.

I am doing a bit of geusswork as to the software setup. I have loaded ms2extra 3.1.0 and have tried both 4g63 and CAS 4/1 Frankly I am not sure which I should be using, both seem to get recommended it various threads.
It doesnt even try to fire, I am not sure if there is any spark at all. I will pull a plug tomorrow and have a look to see if they are firing at all.

I suppose what really need is an MSQ I can load then just drop in my fuel and spark maps and reset req. fuel. Anyone want to pony one up?

Anyone have one to offer or steer me in the right direction?
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:19 PM   #2
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Been doing a bit more reading.

1. I unplugged the ignitor, not the actual coils when burning the firmware. Have I cooked the coils or is it all the same so long as one of the two is unplugged?

2. could I not just download and use the mspnp sample tune from diyautotune to get it up and running? is there any difference between the setup we are using (true diy) verses the board they use from a software standpoint?
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:51 PM   #3
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mspnp basemap, no. DIYPNP basemap, yes.

http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/ap...93-16b6-mt.zip
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaize View Post
Been doing a bit more reading.

1. I unplugged the ignitor, not the actual coils when burning the firmware. Have I cooked the coils or is it all the same so long as one of the two is unplugged?

2. could I not just download and use the mspnp sample tune from diyautotune to get it up and running? is there any difference between the setup we are using (true diy) verses the board they use from a software standpoint?

It's the ignitor that burns out and that sits before the coils so your fine. Later cars have the ignitor built into the coils that's all

Can you confirm if you get rpms in your tuning software?
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:17 PM   #5
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Thats what I meant, sorry, DIYPNP.

Just tried it and it seems to have made thing much worse. tunerstudio now gives me a popup on startup to say the boost control pins are not configured?! and the tach is stuck at 65k rpm, and the tps no longer responds (I have a real one), even when i try to calibrate. IIn cfact all the dash gauges in TS are now stuck at unrealistic figures. Before it all looked ok, just wouldnt start.

Its late, I give up. Try again tomorrow.

open to any ideas
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:18 PM   #6
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We were typing at the same time. No I have yet to get any response to cranking in TS or on the cars dash tach. No rpms at all.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:34 PM   #7
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No rpms means it'll never ever ever start.

Using the DIY map gives you a pin conflict, disable boost control for now or change the pin it's using, its this which is giving you 65k rpms - it's a feature to earn you of a conflict.

If you have never gotton rpms start checking your circuits...
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:35 PM   #8
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Oh and no rpms on the dash means you've burnt out your ignitor. That dial is independent of the MS...

Also have you calibrated the temp sensors?
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:48 PM   #9
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Well if the MS is not triggering the ignitor, then the dash gauge cannot receive a signal. I'll cling to that hope.

I'll try turning off the boost control and look over the input mods again in the morning. At this rate I am about ready to switch back to ms1 and live without EBC.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:59 PM   #10
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iirc there is a jumper needed to be done to make use of MS2 chip vs MS1 chip.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:28 PM   #11
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http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=101&t=31532

Looks like the boost control setting is causing part of the problem.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:37 PM   #12
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Check your battery voltage as well. I had an issue with a low battery where it would crank but slowly, below the 300 rpm cranking speed. Between 250 and 275 rpm. Battery had a static voltage between 10.5 and 11 volts. It was causing it not to sync. As soon as I put in a fresh battery and got the cranking speed up, it synced and fire right up.

I'm not sure if it was the speed at which it was cranking or the voltage itself but it was causing a no start condition. Not saying that's what it is but it may be worth checking just to rule out that possibility.
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaize View Post
Well if the MS is not triggering the ignitor, then the dash gauge cannot receive a signal. I'll cling to that hope.

I'll try turning off the boost control and look over the input mods again in the morning. At this rate I am about ready to switch back to ms1 and live without EBC.

Doesn't work like that sorry. Your ignitor for whatever reason is now dead.

Techsalvager, the mod your on about is to enable the outputs on MSII, it won't actually stop it working.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:11 PM   #14
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Well damn. It was unplugged up untill the last moment so no idea how I killed it. Suppose i will have to do the cop conversion now as well.
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Old 05-14-2011, 10:21 PM   #15
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Hi mate, sorry to hear you're having problems.

Just wondering if any of the jumpers might be the problem (TSEL to OPTO OUT) or something might need swapping about

p.s the capacitor for cops is readily available on Ebay, I'll need to get one too sometime. I'll drop you the link later.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:40 AM   #16
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You will still be getting RPMs into the Tuner Studio Software even if the ignitor was dead. Make certain you upgraded successfully before you go doing anything else.

The ignitor just sends the spark to the coils.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:01 PM   #17
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Right. this will be a bit long winded.

As I was basically getting nowhere and now the ignitor had fallen into question, I gave up and converted back to MS1 if only to check the ignitor. Changed all the mods back except for the newer, better transistor/Joe Perez coil driver mod. It now runs again. But the dash tach is dead. As I understand it this means the ignitor is half cooked? safe to drive like this? (I do have a 2nd car). Otherwise it works just like it used too. Even the shift light is still there.

So I suspect I will need to get a new (or rather new to me) ignitor, and try again next weekend. In the mean time I have a few questions if you guys are willing to humor me.

As I understand it, the change to the ver 3.0 board to go from MS1 to MS2 are as follows.

Remove the old tach input mod; IAC1A to processor and 5v thru a couple of resistors.
Replace this with a wire going to JS10 (no resistor) and a 470r from JS10 to 5v

remove 470r from d1 to u5
remove jumpers at D1 and D2
install 5v to c30

connect tachselect to XG1

and of course swap the coil drivers around.

So what about the 1uf filter from JS8 to ground? leave it? I did, could this have been a problem?

Also I have TACHSELECT jumpered to OPTOIN. Leave this too?

I have a shift light wired to JS8 and EBC wired to JS7. The shift light works and still does. The EBC I wired in when I built this thing 2 years ago then after reading how useless it was with MS1 I didn't bother with it untill I upgraded. It is 1/2 the reason I am doing all of this. So I have never used it. Are these two pins the same on MS2? or could this have been causing my problem?

And finally (it never ends) I broke one of the pins off of one of the ms2 daughtercards I have in front of me (one of them is not mine) I presume, once I get this working with the good one, I can just add a jumper from the top of the daughtercard, thru a proto hole, to the same pin underneath and suffer no ill effects with the broken one?

Thanks for all the help guys, I am starting to get a grip on all this again, amazing how much you forget in 2 years.
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:52 PM   #18
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TACHSELECT jumpered to OPTOIN.

I would be tempted to take it out, doesn't appear on my planned build but may depend on what extras you have added.

1uf filter from JS8 to ground, same as above.

All the other jumpers sound correct to do.
pics on my thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/ms3-ms3x-mk1-1-8-a-56159/
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Old 05-15-2011, 05:26 PM   #19
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Yeah I am beginning to think the 1uf filter may have been causing the trouble. Have another ignitor on the way to me now, so may give all this another try next weekend.
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Old 05-15-2011, 05:38 PM   #20
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You need tachselect to opto in.

Remove the cap, mine wouldn't rev above 3k with it fitted, others have been fine, could be yours was filtering too much of the signal.

Yes it's fine to drive the car with the ignitor not producing a tach signal, just be wary as the end is nigh for the ignitor. My mates lasted a few weeks whilst I sourced a new one.
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