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Old 09-11-2015, 05:08 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted75zcar View Post
This sir is exactly the point. How do we determine how much fuel to deliver?
The wideband.

Would you shutup.now?
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Old 09-11-2015, 05:43 PM   #42
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Will do
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:50 PM   #43
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Wow, a lot of that was over my head. Speaking of widebands I did buy mine used. It seemed in good shape. Actually thinking I may order another sensor just to eliminate any possible issues there. Wouldn't be the first time I got a wonky part.

Keep in mind I am totally new to this and have no frame of reference for what it SHOULD look like. Not a sob story, but I have little for gear head friends here and the closest thing to it in my classes is a kid that thinks his 10yr old convertible v6 mustang is a race car.

I will add that something that got deleted in the harness has made the oil pressure gauge and water temp gauge in the factory cluster go funny. Water temp died and oil works fine at key on and then backwards. Might be a sensor issue or I did the resistors wrong. Looking at the tutorial I used it seems to be a sender issue.

The Wideband does funny things or the injectors do. It'll idle 14.2-15.0ish at a light, then pull in to rent a movie, come back and fire it up, then it idles at 15.6+, drive it down the road like a sissy and then at a light it will idle at 13.8ish. It makes trying to get the idle VE a nightmare. I swear people get these to idle on this sight so I don't think it is an injector issue, maybe an injector setting issue. These are way overkill for N/A, but they what I have.

Here is a short log.
pizzatrip.msl


After selecting "include afr target" it decided to lean the hell out of everything.



After my trips today it seemed happy with stuff. It still wanders around on afr more than I think it should. cruising jumps up to 16+ afr at times went i just accelerate slowly.




I still have no idea why the 15%load range keeps spiking up like that. If I lower manually it cruises silly lean and fixes it to these numbers that look high. Not sure how and injector setting would make the injectors need to work harder to maintain cruise. I know I'm trying to fill a coffee cup with a fire hose, but less is less fuel. Seems counter intuitive.

Ihave a 0-5volt oil pressure snder to wire in adn i've been using the laptop to check water temp. I did hook up a multimeter to the oil sender adn got 90ish psi cold and mid 50s warm half way and idling. It is a Boundary pump with 2 shims. I'd liek to believe with 700miles on it if there was a oil starve problem it would have came up in other ways by now. Not the best way to do it, but I needed a car to run for school. I'm down to little time to work on the car and can't have it down for too long. On the other hand if I am an idiot and it goes BOOM well that'll suck too.
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VE analyze and Autotune seems funny (noob)-80-toschoolvecorrected_18eb38d1b92e3c45942aba9b27903780584bc261.png   VE analyze and Autotune seems funny (noob)-80-pizza_ea6e8a74a8f8a3be27b05313e792266232dd3161.png  
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:02 PM   #44
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Here is a video from last night in a industrial part of town. Usually there is no one back there, but it's Friday night. The odd knock sounding banging after the redneck truck is the wires for the tablet rattling against the cubby bin. It isn't that loud I promise. Also yes I high beamed the the truck. Phone in one hand driving stick problems. Plus everyone of them here drive around with the front jacked up and high beams on all the time like a dudebro mating call. Also the squealing going into throttle it the Skunk2 throttle.

Do the afr's wonder too much? Am I parinoid? The VE map looks jacked up, but it doesn't seem to drive nearly as bad as I think it should looking at the map.

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Old 09-12-2015, 04:46 PM   #45
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switching to incorporate after tuning for without it will make you have to completely start from scratch with tuning. you should also alter your AFR targets to almost all stoich doing initial tuning cause youll be VERY far off.

then when the VE table pretty much always hits your AFR targets, you can change the targets to hit whatever you want to run without having to tune.
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Old 09-12-2015, 04:49 PM   #46
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you realize you have your VICS operating in reverse right? (just looking at the msq now)
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Old 09-12-2015, 05:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
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you realize you have your VICS operating in reverse right? (just looking at the msq now)
n/m you're not running VICs.
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Old 09-12-2015, 06:05 PM   #48
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You need to quit trying to tune low load and low RPM cells with autotune. I've found the 15 map row useless, I've ditched it for more resolution elsewhere. nine point nine times out of ten you are in overrun there, probably why it keeps wanting to dump fuel.

I won't autotune under 1500rpm or under 30 map. Everything else is rarely hit and easy to tune. The video is private, I can't see it.
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Old 09-12-2015, 07:15 PM   #49
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Basically set all of this to 14.7 afr. It just dawned on med this is possibly some of the richness at upper rpm/load. Rev sent me a turbo base map, my fault as I was going to be turbo, and the richer afr makes sense there. I know this may be a uninformed question. What magic is use to determine ones optimum AFR targets? I would assume N/A 14.7 would be best in all situation. However, that is like saying physics 1 math works outside a friction less vacuum probably. My understanding is the richer AFR for boost is to combat detonation, but N/A how would I go about determining what to shoot for. I know there is more to the answer than 2+2 makes best AFR, but is there some reading material I can find?


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Old 09-12-2015, 07:36 PM   #50
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Diggign through a few logs it seems my upper range is almost 120kpa or so. I'm guessign air is stacking up pressure where I sourced the MAP sensor because I'm not sure how I get that number. I'm guessing I should rescale my AFRload% rows to top out just above the highest kPa Iread in the logs? start up top at 120 and go down in 7 degree segments or so. 120/16cells=7.5 round it 6 or 7 and make it 120, 114, 108 . . . then stop at 20 at the bottom to avoid the 15% area in over run and stop dumping fuel. I'm just ballparking here.

Edit: map is souced just behind throttle body un the lower side where it ramos up in the manifold.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:01 PM   #51
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I would figure out why you read positive manifold pressure when you can't possibly have any.

You can google a good NA target table.
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Old 09-12-2015, 09:43 PM   #52
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I found a pic. I'm guess the air is interacting with this curve and doing odd things. The install instructions said find a port near the throttle. Shall I move it to the back of the manifold near the fire wall like all the cool turbo guys?


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Old 09-12-2015, 10:21 PM   #53
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Do you have a FPR to tee off of?

The front ports are supposedly more turbulent. I still don't see how they'd be able to build positive pressure. That's a problem though, a pretty big one actually. You are tuning speed density, you have engine speed and you really need accurate density for it to work proper.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:38 AM   #54
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Nothing to tee off of really. I have that port and the one in top of the same area. I do have one in the back I tapped for when its goes back to boosted. I may put the Barb in and try there. The install said near throttle but using the back of the manifold might be better FM recommends it for their turbo install as far as I remember so I would presume N/A would be fine. It's looking for manifold pressure. No airflow over the port messing with it might help. My only thought with getting positive psi at that port is the neck of the manifold aecs up there on the inside and possibly higher velocity air is "pushing" on that area as it gets to make the curve. Only a guess. The port on top is the inside of that curve so I presume I'd have the same sort of issue in reverse. As the air move faster through the neck bend it may be doing odd things with pressure. Like some form of Bernoulli's equation stuff.
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:23 AM   #55
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What injectors are you running?
Both .msq in your opening post has the injectors set at 1201cc.
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:33 AM   #56
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<p><img src="http://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/912x684/80-20140319_170039_jpg_jpeg_0f021c59bf9c6f3dcfd39089e 1b9edbee4cebda5.jpg" title="" /><br /><br />I What does MAP read with engine off? &nbsp;Should be very close to 100kPa.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p>Here is a pic of where I take my MAP. It is Concealor404 location for his FPR on the return style '99 mod.&nbsp;</p><p>https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r...319_170039.jpg</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

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Old 09-13-2015, 12:45 PM   #57
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I'll relocate the MAP signal to the back of the mani. I'm curious if I have a wonky sensor. I'm using the internal on in the ecu. It skips around. Here is a log of the car sitting in the garage. I have a brand new GM 3bar sensor here, but I'd have to wire it in. The bouncing around seems like big swings. Can anyone verify theirs doesn't d oit with the engine off?








Here is the data for the ID1000 injectors and the current settings. I used the 4bar setting since NB 60psi regulator.








Attached Thumbnails
VE analyze and Autotune seems funny (noob)-80-map_test2_e1dda4f91da3c6af03e4ddbe68377e8f990f77e7.png   VE analyze and Autotune seems funny (noob)-80-map_test_ed34ecaf6adc446138f784a5a9f3fc97dee434aa.png   VE analyze and Autotune seems funny (noob)-80-id1000datasheet_8a743258d79a711dc8bcac906aa0906fa78380cb.png   VE analyze and Autotune seems funny (noob)-80-injectorowmsetting_5ac0639770e9e63d69e86c4ae2f837ee76660ee5.png   VE analyze and Autotune seems funny (noob)-80-injectorowmsetting2_376f15683280b0aad5f44ea9d627fb8a39521ee5.png  

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Old 09-13-2015, 12:57 PM   #58
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im sure your MAPdot looks even worse...
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:39 PM   #59
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I was just getting ready to email Rev and see if the skittery bits were normal. I've seen a few of our cheap sensitive lab map sensors jiggle like that. I don't think it should move a a hair parked in a garage and off. I do tend to ask for as perfect as possible from things. I greatly appreciate the help. I I haven't had time to check the injector voltage vs ecu, but I did relocate the map port 10min ago, and as far as I see it seems I put ID's data in correct. Unless I'm missing a glaring issue there.
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:41 PM   #60
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oops forgot to open the setting tab on the small pulse widths.

Also my logs put my battery volts from 14.0v to 14.7v with a 14.37v average if that helps at all.


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