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Old 02-21-2012, 06:50 AM   #1
Baz
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Default VEAL pulling to much fuel?

1993 1.6, DIYPNP, LC1, 3.2.1 gslender firmware, FMII hardware, 460 RX7 injectors.

I would really appreciate some help, am I doing something wrong? Having done several weeks of VEAL tuning I have hit a problem, when I pull away from a standstill the car bogs down and the AFRs go really lean (18-22), as I release the clutch the car almost stalls as if it is being starved of fuel, I had exactly the same problem when I was running MS1.

I had to lock the cells around the idle area as VEAL was pulling so much fuel, I also had to lock the bottom row of cells as VEAL pulled so much fuel (some of the cells were reduced to 5!

If you look at the screenshot you can see how much fuel VEAL has pulled above the idle area, the start up fuel map is on the right, current on the left.



I have attached a DL, you can see the event at 425seconds on the log where the afr target is 14.7 and the actual afr is 20.1, same at 463 seconds where the afr leans out to 22.3, its driving me nuts!!!!

Am I doing something wrong? I am pretty sure VEAL is pulling too much fuel around the idle area but I just dont know why, I have also attached my msq. Grateful for any help........ please...
Barry

Edit - Just done a quick experiment. I put the original values from the start up msq in the VE Table between 19-84 kpa and 500-1800rpm and the car now does not bog down when I pull away, the idle ARFs are now 12 (warm engine) which I think is abit too rich?

So why is VEAL pulling the fuel in this area? could it be something I have set/not set in the tune?
Attached Thumbnails
VEAL pulling to much fuel?-tunecompare.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: msq upload to msextra.msq (87.1 KB, 75 views)
File Type: msl 2012-02-20_12.19.07.msl (1.23 MB, 91 views)
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:38 AM   #2
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is your MS and WB on the same page? Like, if the WB told the MS it never wanted to make a baby, ever, would the MS be okay with that?
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:01 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
is your MS and WB on the same page? Like, if the WB told the MS it never wanted to make a baby, ever, would the MS be okay with that?
You've lost me there, what do you mean bud?

Phil Tobin looks like he has spotted the problem, this is his response:

"It looks like you are running 100% map based ae so the accel flag is never getting set. So VEAL's Accel filter is no going active. It is seeing the over rich condition accel and not identifying it an accel enrich condition. I need to adjust the ini for this...
In the mean time if you add this Custom Filter, it should resolve this:

Code: Select all
(engine & 64) || (engine & 128)

That will filter pure map based ae events"


I have just been out for a half hour tune and its a zillion times better, is running TPS based AE better than MAP based AE?

Barry
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz View Post
is running TPS based AE better than MAP based AE?
Yes. With TPS based the ECU detects how much and how quickly you open the throttle and can add fuel quickly enough to keep up with the extra air that's on the way in. With MAP based, you give it some throttle and then the ECU has to wait for the MAP to change (extra air is already into the engine) before it can add fuel. One is proactive and the other is reactive.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ScottFW View Post
Yes. With TPS based the ECU detects how much and how quickly you open the throttle and can add fuel quickly enough to keep up with the extra air that's on the way in. With MAP based, you give it some throttle and then the ECU has to wait for the MAP to change (extra air is already into the engine) before it can add fuel. One is proactive and the other is reactive.
Thanks Scott, I definately want to change to TPS based AE, I now just need to get my head around the settings in the AE wizard......
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:58 PM   #6
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I think the 1.6 cars came with an on/off style TPS. You will need a proper variable TPS to use it for AE. Search the forum for 1.6 TPS, I know this has been covered and there are a couple of ways to go about it, but I haven't paid particular attention since I have a 94.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:02 PM   #7
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I have a VTPS....
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