VVT swap with Rev MS3, no start - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-20-2016, 09:39 PM   #1
Cpt. Slow
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default VVT swap with Rev MS3, no start

Sounds familiar, right?

'93 chassis with MS3basic and VVT swap. Only thing interesting is the Tomei intake and exhaust cams plus SPM damper and proprietary 32-2 wheel. Wired per VVT megathread, and I've tested injectors A-B-C-D as 1-3-4-2. Coils A and B are firing the VVt coils. I'm getting cam and crank signal but lots of sync errors. Occasional sputters of life, but no matter what req fuel and/or throttle I throw at it it won't do anything but sputter. Let me know if you see anything wrong!
Attached Files
File Type: csv start log 2.csv (52.7 KB, 26 views)
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 09:43 PM   #2
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Sounds familiar, right?

'93 chassis with MS3basic and VVT swap. Only thing interesting is the Tomei intake and exhaust cams plus SPM damper and proprietary 32-2 wheel. Wired per VVT megathread, and I've tested injectors A-B-C-D as 1-3-4-2. Coils A and B are firing the VVt coils. I'm getting cam and crank signal but lots of sync errors. Occasional sputters of life, but no matter what req fuel and/or throttle I throw at it it won't do anything but sputter. Let me know if you see anything wrong!
Post tune.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 09:47 PM   #3
Cpt. Slow
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

Here ya go
Attached Files
File Type: msq CurrentTune.msq (243.0 KB, 33 views)
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 09:47 PM   #4
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

The crank sensor goes wonky a couple times, hows the spacing? Can you swap to a different crank sensor?

Cam signal looks gud.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 09:49 PM   #5
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Also, why is Cam input set to JS10, is that an MS3 basic thing?
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 09:50 PM   #6
Cpt. Slow
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

.030
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 09:52 PM   #7
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

So the issue I see is the crank sensor is going low too many times. It looks like noise. But this causes the megasquirt to think that there are too many crank pulses. Which makes you lose sync.



See how it goes low for a second there? It shouldn't. And thats why you get the loss of sync at the end, because it counts 35 pulses instead of 34.

So I say swap with a known working crank sensor, and a smaller gap.
Attached Thumbnails
VVT swap with Rev MS3, no start-80-8fkivja_fda3810bf8fdee14df2dda1bc9ce06faa35c813e.png  
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 09:59 PM   #8
Cpt. Slow
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default



checking the gap again I noticed this tooth profile. Looks like a manufacturing mark from a burn table. Would this affect anything?

its the the tooth right to the right of the timing marks
Attached Thumbnails
VVT swap with Rev MS3, no start-1b7f12dc-1501-484e-81fe-dca3d61fa407_zps4lvo5tft.jpg  
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:00 PM   #9
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Totally could. How many teeth from the gap is it?
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:02 PM   #10
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

I just counted your log. The miss is at the same place each time. its the 12th tooth from the gap. If that matches up with your count I'm 90% sure thats your problem.

If you close up the gap you might be able to get past it. But I would definitely be getting a new ring.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:06 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 247
Default

Yes that extra tooth machined on the wheel is the problem.
patsmx5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:06 PM   #12
Cpt. Slow
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

Dammit, that means pressing the pulley off while in the car. Booo.

Just did a log with 10 cranks, it's there on all 10, and yeah, in the same place. Lemme count where it is...Yup, once the 'bad' tooth passes the sensor, there's 11 good teeth and then the gap.
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:08 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 247
Default

I would run a stock wheel, you won't have any problems with it, they are very reliable.
patsmx5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:09 PM   #14
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Its an aftermarket damper. You can't run a stock wheel with it.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:10 PM   #15
Cpt. Slow
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

You mean a stock pulley? The customer paid for the damper, I think he'll want it installed. I'll chat with emilio
curly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:12 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 247
Default

No I meant a 4 tooth wheel that fits your damper. For sure use the damper you already got.
patsmx5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:13 PM   #17
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

This was discussed recently. The 36-2 is just as reliable, and offers better timing resolution at high rpms.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 11:26 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
The 36-2 is just as reliable.
Wrong. The OP in THIS THREAD is having problems with one of these parts you are defending to be reliable. How many OEM 4 tooth wheels have this problem? How many people have problems with their ecu decoding a stock wheel correctly?
patsmx5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 11:28 PM   #19
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

An OEM wheel is incompatible with this damper. This problem could have occurred with a 4 tooth wheel just as easily. You are making a blanket statement that is just false.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 11:38 PM   #20
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,309
Total Cats: 1,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Wrong. The OP in THIS THREAD is having problems with one of these parts you are defending to be reliable. How many OEM 4 tooth wheels have this problem? How many people have problems with their ecu decoding a stock wheel correctly?
Wrong.

We have run the proto 36-2 wheels for many hours under many adverse conditions on our dampers without issue. FM has many customers on their wheel for the ATI damper without issue. Superior to a 4T in every way. This one however, appears to have a manufacturing defect. Unrelated to the design configuration. A defect in an aftermarket 4T would have the same problem. We'll get it sorted out for Josh ASAP.
emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Square Top Intake Manifold sanravel Engine Performance 10 04-26-2016 10:54 AM
Injectors 255cc for 1.8, Billet shift knob Windows95 Miata parts for sale/trade 1 04-23-2016 02:50 AM
70MM Throttle body upgrade, opinions. theshdwconspracy Engine Performance 27 04-22-2016 02:36 PM
Flex Fuel for MSM Mazdaspeeder Engine Performance 1 04-19-2016 10:21 AM
School me on injector function guttedmiata ECUs and Tuning 17 04-18-2016 10:44 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:47 AM.