Overbore has been calculated into specific torque output already. Still at ~75. Exhaust may be better but I'm at 5 psi backpressure and a 3 psi reduction won't get you from 68 to 75, especially since I'm operating the GT2560 closer to its max efficiency island (200 kPa, vs. 230). I have headwork too, and oversized valves. Note that my buddy Ian got almost exactly the same torque curve as me, even tho I have VVT and a shorty tubey manifold, and he doesn't.
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244 tq @ 16.5 lbs @ 3700 rpm on mustang dyno
220 tq @ 16.8 lbs @ 6400 rpm 84 mm 9:1 NB1, NB2 VVT, square top, 3", 2860, stock tub so the incremental cost of the 2860 over the 2560 produces the same result of all that fancy head work? |
:)
When I try to sell the turbo, I get smart guys saying it is run of the mill turbo which is valued at $100-200 in great condition. When I dyno or race it I get different smart guys telling it cannot produce the results it does. Piping has effect and this one could not fit into Miata as Ben told, unless you move front suspension 2' forward and firewall 1' back. Turbo is still for sale so I can get that EFR or GTX there like designed. I want to have throttle steer on fifth gear as well :) |
I agree that piping is more critical than ppl realize
why I have fins on the twin charge pipe between the turbo and the dual inlet intercooler larger volume, lower velocity, longer residence in heat rejection area BEFORE I/C grab as much charge cooling as possible without sacrificing flow sorry I missed the hill climb, would have loved to have seen your car perform, sure looks nice on facebook instead I got to do solo laps at Bristol but planning to be there for the next event |
Originally Posted by mx594m
(Post 1025193)
I agree that piping is more critical than ppl realize
It would be interesting to see what TIPs are in hrk's setup. |
Originally Posted by mx594m
(Post 1025138)
244 tq @ 16.5 lbs @ 3700 rpm on mustang dyno
220 tq @ 16.8 lbs @ 6400 rpm 84 mm 9:1 NB1, NB2 VVT, square top, 3", 2860, stock tub so the incremental cost of the 2860 over the 2560 produces the same result of all that fancy head work? Fancy head work and a really efficient exhaust with a 2560 ought to make more power up top, but also let the turbo spool up at an even lower RPM. That's why I don't understand why hrk's dyno chart doesn't show 200 kpa until 3700 RPM, while my car (2560 with vanilla FM2 parts) does it at 3300. I would have expected to see it around 3100 RPM on hrk's plot. This is why I asked if the '2560' had been a typo for '2860'. It's not though, the part #s off the compressor and pictures do indeed point to a 2560. Are there any boost leaks that would be delaying spoolup? --Ian |
Sometimes headwork will delay spool because it hurts low velocity/low flow conditions.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1025550)
Sometimes headwork will delay spool because it hurts low velocity/low flow conditions.
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I think it has more to do with the dyno not presenting enough load at the beginning of the pull. It releases the axle and allows the engine to rev up at a fixed rate, set up as a user configurable option in delta RPM / second. I have noticed that turbo car tend to spool faster with their wheels on the ground compared to the dyno. Heikki may have a log saved from last weekend that we could use to compare spool on the track vs spool on the dyno.
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Originally Posted by Ben
(Post 1025584)
I think it has more to do with the dyno not presenting enough load at the beginning of the pull. It releases the axle and allows the engine to rev up at a fixed rate, set up as a user configurable option in delta RPM / second. I have noticed that turbo car tend to spool faster with their wheels on the ground compared to the dyno.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1025587)
Ben you can change this on the dynapac. Set the start rpm to something lower than when you think the turbo should spool, set it to hold for a couple seconds there, and then set it up like normal.
Holding the car back for a few seconds is very hard on the car, quickly creating very high temps. Part of tuning is keeping conditions stable so you can correctly value the effectiveness of the changes made between pulls. Another part of tuning is not putting the engine in danger, IE lugging the engine at massive load for an extended time. I think a better option would be if a knee point were added in software, allowing to change the slope of the pull rate at after a configurable RPM. |
LOLOL@Leafy teaching Ben how to operate a dyno.
Next you should tell him about Megasquirt:laugh: |
is that as in less load, lower KPa, less combustion gas, less spin?
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What was the sweep time setting on the dynapack?
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1025592)
LOLOL@Leafy teaching Ben how to operate a dyno.
Next you should tell him about Megasquirt:laugh:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 1025602)
What was the sweep time setting on the dynapack?
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The chart shows the MAP starting at 140 kpa and at 1500 RPM, so I'd think there'd be plenty of time to get the turbo spooled up. Sweep time would be of interest, yes.
The car has a 6-speed and 3.9? --Ian |
5 speed and 3.9
log manifold for turbo as well |
/\ I was just about to comment on that: its a super basic log manifold, not some tubular high flowing goodness, which makes this even more surprising.
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log manifolds spool better in most cases.
it's also making a lot more boost at redline than 4K, but it still takes a dump in tq after 6K. |
I thought that only applied to high flowing tubular manifolds where the runners didn't crash into one another. apparently I was wrong
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