why my idle is so bad - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-15-2014, 03:22 PM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Socal
Posts: 24
Total Cats: -3
Default why my idle is so bad

I dont get why my idle is so bad, or how i can adjust it be smoother. seems to bounce between 300 and 500 although i want it at a steady 800. I thought you just needed to adjust the ve table at the rpm you're at but that didnt do much for me ahah. tune and datalog of idle included. i used the maps as a base from someone elses tune on here and i thought that the VE's were supppeeerrrr high. all criticism welcome
Attached Files
File Type: msq 10degTiming.msq (39.9 KB, 62 views)
File Type: msl 2014-04-15_11.04.28.msl (215.8 KB, 79 views)
Boostedpos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 05:15 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Try tuning it.

MS2/Extra Tuning guide
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:20 AM   #3
Junior Member
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: GA
Posts: 171
Total Cats: -154
Default

try switching to an warmup only PWM on idle control
are you naturally aspirated? also what mods to your car?
there are tons of things you need to have just right.

try having a cell about 300 rpms lower than your idle target on spark tables, and then one 300-400rpms higher above the target idle cells and have them 2-3 degrees higher.

for instance on my spark tables the first three plots look like this

40 20 17 19
30 20 17 19
20-600, 900, 1200

rpm


this creates a " valley" causing the spark advance to work less hard to average out what the idle advance is

the trick is to find what advance you should be running, for me im running like 16,17,18
because my cam gears are offset a little bit and its like 400 dollars to have them re set
zacktrotter_uncc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 01:50 AM   #4
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Socal
Posts: 24
Total Cats: -3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacktrotter_uncc View Post
try switching to an warmup only PWM on idle control
are you naturally aspirated? also what mods to your car?
there are tons of things you need to have just right.

try having a cell about 300 rpms lower than your idle target on spark tables, and then one 300-400rpms higher above the target idle cells and have them 2-3 degrees higher.

for instance on my spark tables the first three plots look like this

40 20 17 19
30 20 17 19
20-600, 900, 1200

rpm


this creates a " valley" causing the spark advance to work less hard to average out what the idle advance is

the trick is to find what advance you should be running, for me im running like 16,17,18
because my cam gears are offset a little bit and its like 400 dollars to have them re set
thanks for the input! im running a 1.6 with a t25, motor is otherwise stock. ill try all that out tomorrow morning.
Boostedpos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 09:10 AM   #5
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,809
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

dont be a ***** and run warm up only because you don't have the basic 2nd grader skills to be able to tune close loop idle.


Quote:
the trick is to find what advance you should be running, for me im running like 16,17,18
because my cam gears are offset a little bit and its like 400 dollars to have them re set

ROFL. Yes, this is the guy you should be follow advice from.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 10:08 AM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 212
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacktrotter_uncc View Post
because my cam gears are offset a little bit and its like 400 dollars to have them re set
AlexL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:35 PM   #7
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Socal
Posts: 24
Total Cats: -3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
dont be a ***** and run warm up only because you don't have the basic 2nd grader skills to be able to tune close loop idle. ROFL. Yes, this is the guy you should be follow advice from.
Where's your useful input then?
Boostedpos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:42 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,460
Total Cats: 782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedpos View Post
Where's your useful input then?
You already got it. See below. You DEFINITELY don't want to take advice from the guy that can't figure out how to set timing on his car and has to pay someone else to do it.

If he can't do that, what makes you think he knows a damn thing about tuning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Try tuning it.

MS2/Extra Tuning guide
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:47 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Search the forums also, there are a few step-by-step guides for tuning idle. Be sure to leave out lots of relevant info like what model MS you have and what year your car is if you have any questions.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:50 PM   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 212
Total Cats: 3
Default

Have you set your base timing? Adjusted your timing at idle to be uniform? Adjusted your fuel cells at idle to be uniform? What kind of AFRs is it bouncing around at?
AlexL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:50 PM   #11
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,809
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Search the forums also, there are a few step-by-step guides for tuning idle. Be sure to leave out lots of relevant info like what model MS you have and what year your car is if you have any questions.
might even be able to find one of the many i've posted again and again and again and again and again...
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 02:40 PM   #12
Junior Member
iTrader: (-1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: GA
Posts: 171
Total Cats: -154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
dont be a ***** and run warm up only because you don't have the basic 2nd grader skills to be able to tune close loop idle.


ROFL. Yes, this is the guy you should be follow advice from.
Nothing is wrong with running warmup only IC.

as for the other users stupid replies to some of my content,
i know very much how to fix it. actually the tweaked cams gives it more power and ive been told that its running fine by the nerds at 2 diffrent shops, and 16-18 iav is just fine.

also agree that you should read more. perferably on MSEXTRA.com support forums. the guys there actually know how to help you and dont just haze you because you are new. thats what i do know.
zacktrotter_uncc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:05 PM   #13
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Socal
Posts: 24
Total Cats: -3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexL View Post
Have you set your base timing? Adjusted your timing at idle to be uniform? Adjusted your fuel cells at idle to be uniform? What kind of AFRs is it bouncing around at?
I have my base timing set at 10 deg and adjusted it on my motor, which I always thought to be a safe setting. But whenever I open someone else's msq or read a timing thread everyone elses timing seems to be at -10 degrees, can you clear that up for me? My AFR gauge and megasquirt tell me 2 completely different readings and as of right now I cant get my LC1 to connect to my computer with Logworks
Boostedpos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:07 PM   #14
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Socal
Posts: 24
Total Cats: -3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Search the forums also, there are a few step-by-step guides for tuning idle. Be sure to leave out lots of relevant info like what model MS you have and what year your car is if you have any questions.
Motor is a 1990, running a t25 and nothing else. I use a MS1 3.0 as a standalone.
Boostedpos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:35 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 212
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedpos View Post
I have my base timing set at 10 deg and adjusted it on my motor, which I always thought to be a safe setting. But whenever I open someone else's msq or read a timing thread everyone elses timing seems to be at -10 degrees, can you clear that up for me? My AFR gauge and megasquirt tell me 2 completely different readings and as of right now I cant get my LC1 to connect to my computer with Logworks
-10 for timing means to "use the timing map". Setting timing to 10, and then using a timing light, is used to verify that the MS agrees with what the actual timing is set to. Once you have figured out the actual timing angle you set timing back to -10 so the Megasquirt will use your map. Looks like the newest version of Tunerstudio got rid of the timing wizard but this thread should help https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...-timing-50030/ Do a little searching around.

You need to straighten out your wideband issues. You won't get very far without a functioning gauge, or an accurate reading in Tunerstudio. I never liked the LC1. I have a PLX M300 that is 10 years old and has worked flawlessly since day one.

As far as tuning idle goes, again, look around. Here is a gem for you: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...me-help-57133/
AlexL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:49 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

I know it sounds harsh, but you really need to stop ******* around and read. Read the entire manual for the MS1 on MSExtra.com. You're not going to learn this by trial and error, and we aren't going to hold your hand. If you don't want to read it all, that's fine. Take it to a shop and pay someone to do it. But if you want to do it yourself, you have to at least have an idea of what you're doing.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:52 PM   #17
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,809
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacktrotter_uncc View Post
Nothing is wrong with running warmup only IC.
Yes, things are wrong with it.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:54 PM   #18
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Socal
Posts: 24
Total Cats: -3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
I know it sounds harsh, but you really need to stop ******* around and read. Read the entire manual for the MS1 on MSExtra.com. You're not going to learn this by trial and error, and we aren't going to hold your hand. If you don't want to read it all, that's fine. Take it to a shop and pay someone to do it. But if you want to do it yourself, you have to at least have an idea of what you're doing.
I read one of the manuals before but i didnt really retain all the information so ill have to do that again. i just played around with the ve table at idle and i have it idling pretty steady at between 700-800 rpm, but i had to go as low as 39 on one of my boxes to get it to that point, is that a pretty common level or such my ve values be quite a bit higher?
Boostedpos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:55 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,460
Total Cats: 782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacktrotter_uncc View Post
try switching to an warmup only PWM on idle control
are you naturally aspirated? also what mods to your car?
there are tons of things you need to have just right.

try having a cell about 300 rpms lower than your idle target on spark tables, and then one 300-400rpms higher above the target idle cells and have them 2-3 degrees higher.

for instance on my spark tables the first three plots look like this

40 20 17 19
30 20 17 19
20-600, 900, 1200

rpm


this creates a " valley" causing the spark advance to work less hard to average out what the idle advance is

the trick is to find what advance you should be running, for me im running like 16,17,18
because my cam gears are offset a little bit and its like 400 dollars to have them re set
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacktrotter_uncc View Post
Nothing is wrong with running warmup only IC.

as for the other users stupid replies to some of my content,
i know very much how to fix it. actually the tweaked cams gives it more power and ive been told that its running fine by the nerds at 2 diffrent shops, and 16-18 iav is just fine.

also agree that you should read more. perferably on MSEXTRA.com support forums. the guys there actually know how to help you and dont just haze you because you are new. thats what i do know.


Explain yourself.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:55 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,460
Total Cats: 782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedpos View Post
I read one of the manuals before but i didnt really retain all the information so ill have to do that again. i just played around with the ve table at idle and i have it idling pretty steady at between 700-800 rpm, but i had to go as low as 39 on one of my boxes to get it to that point, is that a pretty common level or such my ve values be quite a bit higher?

What are you expecting that box to be instead? Have you looked at what other people have set?
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump $50 lsc224 Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 10:17 AM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM
Got bad Crank Angle Sensor and Random Misfire codes, but runs fine. Greasyman General Miata Chat 2 09-28-2015 11:44 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:54 AM.