High speed valves - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Methanol/Water Injection Place to talk about meth/water injection.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-02-2009, 11:26 AM   #1
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,913
Default High speed valves

Has anybody ever found a valve which is compatible with the frequencies encountered in a MegaSquirt application- IOW, injector frequency?
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 04:26 PM   #2
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

The Aquamist one may work.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 06:17 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

It's pretty spensive though if I remember correctly.
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 06:34 PM   #4
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,913
Default

Yeah, I'm not really interested in spending $500 for a pair of solenoids.
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 12:30 PM   #5
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

$500 ??? !!! Damn!
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 12:42 PM   #6
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,913
Default

Yeah, they seem tun run about $250 - $270 each. For what I had in mind, two would be needed.

The coolingmist HSV might have worked, and was somewhat cheaper, but they're apparently discontinued.

When I get back home, I'm going to spend some time mapping out the performance curve of the PWM pump controller. Who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I doubt it, but there's always the possibility.

Random but serious question: some high performance engines, such as found in Champ, Indy, USAC, some classes of drag racing, etc., run on pure methanol. At least some of these engines are fuel injected. What kind of injectors do these guys run, and would said injectors survive a methanol / water mixture?
Joe Perez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 12:56 PM   #7
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 406
Default

mcmaster sells a slew of 60Hz valves but I'm not sure if they're PWM compatible or just operated at 60Hz.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 01:04 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 671
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Random but serious question: some high performance engines, such as found in Champ, Indy, USAC, some classes of drag racing, etc., run on pure methanol. At least some of these engines are fuel injected. What kind of injectors do these guys run, and would said injectors survive a methanol / water mixture?
IIRC the Champ car was running 18 injectors on pure methanol -> 2 per cylinder port and 2 spraying before the turbo (thus increasing turbo efficiency and cooling both turbo and the compressed air).

Not sure whether they used some methanol resistant injectors or just replace injectors after each race. Here is what RC Eng. say about theirs:

Quote:
What type of fuels are your injectors suitable for?
Our injectors are suitable for gasoline as well as leaded race gas. Alcohol/methanol is extremely corrosive and should only be used for race only applications where the user can drain the alcohol/methanol and “pickle” the entire fuel system with gasoline at the end of each day.
Hydrogen, Propane and Natural Gas injectors are also available for gaseous applications.
j_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 04:33 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

This probably is of no consequence Joe, but IIRC Champ Car injectors are a "jet" type (spray a jet of liquid rather than a fan/mist like most injectors).
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 07:33 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Thread ressurrection....
Did anyone ever find a high speed valve other than the Aquamist? I really want a high-speed valve for my WI setup, but just hate the idea of paying that much for a valve that MUST have a cheaper alternative somewhere... They still seem to be priced at around $250 each.

I want the more precise control that will come compared to PWM control of the motor, and a decent IGBT (SSR) to drive it with the Adaptronic will cost $50-$100 anyway.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 09:12 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 118
Total Cats: 0
Default

Aquamists HSV is basically a stainless steel injector. The only reason an injector would be bad is it would eventually rust shut. As long as you had cheap injectors it would matter much with a warning system so you could replace it. I've looked on McMaster for similars but none Ive found are PWM. Perhaps a friendly machinist could try their hand at this.
rrjwilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 02:01 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,682
Total Cats: 216
Default

What about the WON 'Pulsoid' solenoids? They're considered the best in Nitrous because of their ability to be pulsed very quickly, allowing for very smooth progressive control.

noswizard.com
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 02:55 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

^^ Materials incompatability in the seat area. From noswizard:

Quote:
- Matched Hi-tech thermo plastic outlet seat and plunger seal for ZERO wear.
Depending on what plastic they use, that is a no-go

Also...
Quote:
* Due to the recent introduction of bio fuels and the greater concentrations of incompatible chemicals in pump fuels and aftermarket octane boosters, we are no longer able to include chemical decomposition of the fuel plunger seal in our lifetime warranty terms. From now on any such failures (which often take years to develop), will be treated as the Pulsoid being in need of a service and will be charged for accordingly.

All petrochemical companies keep the ingredients they use in their products as secret as possible and change those ingredients and the percentages thereof on a regular basis throughout the year, with regional variations also common.

The most reliable sealing materials for use with fuels in general are a number of variations on rubber but there is no single material that has a lifelong resistance to all the chemicals currently being used. We recommend that the fuel Pulsoid be inspected for chemical decomposition ever 6 months and if the system is not in use, then it should be drained and blanked off until required. As a special dispensation, we are offering to inspect and reassemble (only) all fuel Pulsoids less than 2 years old at half the normal cost but any Pulsoid found in need of a new plunger seal will be charged in full.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 11:13 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Naka, Japan & Georgetown, Texas
Posts: 128
Total Cats: 0
Default

I dn't know if it is exactly what you are looking for, but Labonte has some clippard valves that are PWM. I ordered some because they were cheaper than regular solenoids. I will let you know how they work for me.

Meth Solenoid that is PWM safe. - evolutionm.net
Dust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 01:21 AM   #15
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

dude i like those what is the fitting size etc as they come supplied i was alil skeptical when i saw the flow rate of like .6 scfm but then i did the conversion and if the **** flows half that well on water meth it would rock lemme know how it turns out im interested.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 03:23 AM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Naka, Japan & Georgetown, Texas
Posts: 128
Total Cats: 0
Default

it's a 1/4 push to connect. Labonte said they will flow less than normal solenoids, but I will be using it for an m0.5 nozzle pre-turbo, so I won't know the difference.
Dust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 03:26 AM   #17
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

sounds awesome man i realy think this is a good solution to people not wanting to run a simple system, and bring us alot more adjustability.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 02:00 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Standing by to see how it works for you. Fingers crossed.

Funny that Labonte does not advertise it as a PWM solenoid though the evo thread (?) indicates that it is. I think Labonte just uses it as an on-off only, in place of a check valve, to reduce back pressure. Their high-end 3D map controller still uses PWM on the pump motor judging by their diagram.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 08:21 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,682
Total Cats: 216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
^^ Materials incompatability in the seat area. From noswizard:


Depending on what plastic they use, that is a no-go

Also...
Ive talked to the owner quite a bit and from what I understand their are people running methanol through these solenoids, so I would think that they should be able to handle a water/meth mix.

ill ask him about it next time were in touch
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 09:04 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,889
Total Cats: 28
Default

Yeah if you can find out the seal material. I think for polymers Santoprene is one of the best for water/meth, but others may be OK, they will just swell (absorb fluid) and/or degrade slowly.
ZX-Tex is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:22 PM.