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Old 01-21-2010, 07:12 PM   #81
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Pre-turbo is the most effective form of Water Injection... its the only way Id run my water. Just make sure you have a nozzle that provides great atomization...


Stop necrothread digging. ****. No one gives a **** about your one line unsubstantiated answers to all things WI related.
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:54 PM   #82
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Haha do some research douche. Maybe then you could push past that 8psi mark..
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:59 PM   #83
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Haha do some research douche. Maybe then you could push past that 8psi mark..
OHS NOES! You called me a name on the internet and made fun of my setup! Time to go cry and ********** with my own tears I guess :'(.

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Old 01-21-2010, 08:04 PM   #84
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Why dont you stop thread crapping and start contributing something?
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:12 PM   #85
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Why dont you stop thread crapping and start contributing something?
pot...kettle


haha


We've had the preturbo WI discussion before, and most are hesitant. I'm one of those after doing a lot of reading on some British 'Yota diesel pickup forum. A lot of those guys tried pre-turbo, and saw their compressor blades disappear.

I think the culprit came down to nozzle placement half the time. A lot of guys put them in an intake pipe that still had a ribbed section afterwards...where the water would pool and hit the compressor as droplets instead of a well atomized mist.
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:24 PM   #86
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I run Bete PJ Fog Nozzles and love their atomization. Its like a dense fog, majority of water droplets are less than 50 Microns. If you have proper atomization you shouldnt have any problems with the turbine compressor running pre-turbo. Plus the added bump in turbo compressor efficiency cant be ignored.
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:27 PM   #87
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Plus the added bump in turbo compressor efficiency cant be ignored.
This is a big deal to me since my compressor is too small as it is.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:52 PM   #88
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Dont have to believe me. Do the research and see for yourself. Heres a couple good links.

Where Do I Position My Water Injection Nozzles

Not2Fast: Water Injection

And heres some guys getting big numbers out of rotaries running on pump gas.. --> Water Injection
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:03 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
pot...kettle


haha


We've had the preturbo WI discussion before, and most are hesitant. I'm one of those after doing a lot of reading on some British 'Yota diesel pickup forum. A lot of those guys tried pre-turbo, and saw their compressor blades disappear.

I think the culprit came down to nozzle placement half the time. A lot of guys put them in an intake pipe that still had a ribbed section afterwards...where the water would pool and hit the compressor as droplets instead of a well atomized mist.
We've sprayed our biggest nozzles, 14 GPH, through the inlet of turbo's and not once hurt the impeller. Way back in the day we dumped the entire fual system right through the turbo on a carbureted draw through setup on a big block Chevy. Not one problem.

Having setup literally hundreds of precompressor injection systems for customers. Not one has had a problem either. If this was damaging compressors I guarantee you we wouldn't do it. Furthermore, we would have an epidemic of customers with damaged turbo's knocking at our door.

Hope this helps as we share our experience with it.

Rodney
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:07 PM   #90
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We've sprayed our biggest nozzles, 14 GPH, through the inlet of turbo's and not once hurt the impeller. Way back in the day we dumped the entire fual system right through the turbo on a carbureted draw through setup on a big block Chevy. Not one problem.

Having setup literally hundreds of precompressor injection systems for customers. Not one has had a problem either. If this was damaging compressors I guarantee you we wouldn't do it. Furthermore, we would have an epidemic of customers with damaged turbo's knocking at our door.

Hope this helps as we share our experience with it.

Rodney


As helpful as that was...it would be more helpful if you pointed out some key installation procedures that make these successful setups different from the slew of damaged compressor I've seen documented.

Much appreciated.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:32 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
As helpful as that was...it would be more helpful if you pointed out some key installation procedures that make these successful setups different from the slew of damaged compressor I've seen documented.

Much appreciated.
With every applications we've done the nozzle has been within 1-5" of the compressor wheel. Typical sizes we use when doing pre-compressor injection are 5,7 and 10 GPH. These are the most common that we work with everyday. On some of the high horsepower stuff, like this Vette below, were using a 14 GPH nozzle before the compressor.

Here's the link to the article.

AIS water/meth kit in the world's fastest C6 ZO6








[/QUOTE]

Furthermore another company, Anderson Ford Motorsports, sells the Mr Freeze water methanol injection kits. They have been selling these units for over 10 years now. I ran one of them myself on my own Mustang. Very popular in the Mustang community. Its a low pressure system which uses the boost pressure from the compressor to push the fluid out of the bottle. They use a mig welding tip as the nozzle and point it right at the compressor wheel. They are literally peeing a solid stream of fluid right at the impeller. No atomization at all. They really on the compressor to break up the fluid. They have sold thousands of these units and I haven't heard of one person on any of the Mustang community complain of damage.

I have also seen pictures on the net of impellers supposedly damaged by water methanol injection, such as this one, which in fact never had water injection ran through it. If you have any experience working with water methanol injection you would know that this compressor wheel would look squeaky clean. This impeller was damaged due to not running an air filter.

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Old 01-25-2010, 01:38 PM   #92
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Nice to see a little first hand experience with this issue.

We may be safe to assume that high quality parts are not susceptible to be damaged by the fast transition in temperature brought on by injection.

Do you have any experience doing this using china-chargers?
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:04 PM   #93
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Thank you for going into detail on that AIS.

We've heard a lot of people say "you can dew eet"...but not many people that care to share how.

I do have to say however that I'm surprised about the Mustang guys spraying solid stream. Granted they have bigger compressors...

Also, wouldn't you be losing the benefit of increasing compressor efficiency?

I'm sure if they've got the right compressor to begin with they don't care, but in my case I need atomization to shift the island to the right a little bit.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:10 PM   #94
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I'd like to see some empirical data on improving compressor efficiency.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:54 AM   #95
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well holly **** mr AIS i must say we need more poeple like you on here maybe it will convert some of these heatsink addicted ***** to WI. Still im with neo i want some data it seems to me the potential for collection in the intake tract is alot higher with preturbo WI this would cause pooling in some cases and just overall inadequate cooling + how far out of your effeciency range are you spinning your compressor to get it so hot you want to suplement it with more cooling capacity. I buy it with positive displacement superchargers but overall for turbos and for the majority of the people on here who run turbos its just not a very effective thing to do. This being said that vette etc is awesome. very well done indeed.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:57 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Thank you for going into detail on that AIS.

We've heard a lot of people say "you can dew eet"...but not many people that care to share how.

I do have to say however that I'm surprised about the Mustang guys spraying solid stream. Granted they have bigger compressors...

Also, wouldn't you be losing the benefit of increasing compressor efficiency?

I'm sure if they've got the right compressor to begin with they don't care, but in my case I need atomization to shift the island to the right a little bit.
yeah but you see he post turbo WI does that essentialy anyway as it raises your VE past 100% if done correctly allowing you to make more of your given cfm with timming etc. The surge limit of your turbo and cfm flow is not going to be drastically effected by cooling it down if anything the contraction would lower the cfm slightly as the orifice gets minisculey smaller upon cooling.
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