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Old 01-28-2007, 08:57 AM   #21
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no he means upping the air going into the motor in some way while avoiding more heat.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:19 AM   #22
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Hmm- i,d love to get more air in ,as i know ive got fuel still to give up, but i,m maxed out on my pulley sizes.Only other way i know of is to get rid of the AFM?
Or P&P the head / and S/C to improve flow.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:35 AM   #23
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or get a mp62 elapha and tom at Fast forwad superchargers are working on this as we speack. And yess it will be for a 1.6 and he is shooting for garunteed 200whp bolton affair, so he might be able to help you with parts brakets etc. he is a nice guy from what i hear around the baords.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:40 PM   #24
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www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com

tom = super nice guy
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Old 01-30-2007, 09:50 AM   #25
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T3 time?
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:16 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by 96rdstr View Post
Well, I am looking to the bipes to be an improvement over the MSD that I currently have. My concern is fueling with the powercard. They "say" that the powercard has whatever built in already, but when you read on .net, you will have people slam it and say it doesnt work over 6psi, which I already know is not true. My AFR's look all squigly....This is a Dyno done on a dyno dynamics back in the late summer here in Tampa. Dont Laugh at my wimpy 150.5...
Well, it is true that your injectors can't handle much more than the 6PSI and 150rwhp because, as you can clearly see, your injectors go static at ~6000 RPM. So, for the last 1200 RPM until redline, your injectors are just locked open. I believe they'll suffer a shortened lifespan from this and may fail by locking open or closed in time.

Given that most tuners don't like to take injector duty cycle past ~80-90% at redline, your's going to 100% at only 6000 RPM seems pretty hairy. There are plenty of times the "crazies at M.net" disseminate correct information.
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Old 01-30-2007, 05:00 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Well, it is true that your injectors can't handle much more than the 6PSI and 150rwhp because, as you can clearly see, your injectors go static at ~6000 RPM. So, for the last 1200 RPM until redline, your injectors are just locked open. I believe they'll suffer a shortened lifespan from this and may fail by locking open or closed in time.

Given that most tuners don't like to take injector duty cycle past ~80-90% at redline, your's going to 100% at only 6000 RPM seems pretty hairy. There are plenty of times the "crazies at M.net" disseminate correct information.
Agreed, I have 315cc injectors at the house. That should help out along with a HF pump shouldnt it? Thoughts on that? Shoot, I should post all three dyno sheets so fellow peeps can give me some insight on what I should do to run safe good power.

I am sure the crazies at .net do have good information, they just seem to be blinded at times. I prefer this board to many because it is focused and streamlined, and people don't beat you down for questions or say your shizz sucks you should get XXXXX. I hate that. Thanks again for the reply.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:24 AM   #28
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Well, I think your shizz sucks and you should get bigger injectors or an AFPR and a new fuel pump

You could get slightly larger injectors and hope the stock ECU idles and cruises them ok. You could leave the injectors as-is, get an AFPR and increase fuel pressure along with the Powercard. The PC can only add injectory duty cycle, right? It can't decrease their on-time from stock?

I guess the slightly larger injectors idea is probably the route I'd go in your shoes.
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:45 AM   #29
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wait a minute you did this on stock FP. Mad props man but yeah a fpr would let you hit 200 easy, some 1.8's you could hit 210 esp with a good WI setup wich it seems you have.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
wait a minute you did this on stock FP. Mad props man but yeah a fpr would let you hit 200 easy, some 1.8's you could hit 210 esp with a good WI setup wich it seems you have.
Ok, so both you and Brian think I should get an AFPR, a larger FP( Walbro 255), and install the larger injectors. Should also keep the powercard or ditch it? I am confused about my next steps....

I have 315 cc injectors already, not installed. I will order a new FP...Should I locate a FPR or hold off on that for now, and see how the injectors and new FP do? I do have WI, so that helps with cooling ther intake charge. Anything else?

Thanks guys.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96rdstr View Post
... a larger FP( Walbro 255) ...
I'd think a 190HP would be adequate. There are some who believe the 255 overpowers many AFPRs, causing pressure rise out of boost.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:42 PM   #32
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Whoa, slow down, guys

Yes, you've got a couple different paths you could go. You could go three routes, basically:

1) Get slightly bigger injectors (you have 230cc, you could probably idle/cruise 240-270cc injectors) and re-tune your Powercard...this would basically make your current setup safer, it wouldn't go static at 6000 RPM, and it would be the cheapest.

2) Get an AFPR (190lph HP pump optional here) in addition to the Powercard. This would be more expensive, and would require you to re-tune your Powercard to not increase injector duty cycle so much. I don't like this idea because you already own the Powercard and it's installed; adding the AFPR would introduce a new variable that would make it more difficult to tune the two in tandem.

3) Get an AFPR and a mandatory 190lph HP (HP stands for high-pressure...stay away from the 255lph pumps until you need enough fuel for upwards of 350rwhp) fuel pump and ditch the Powercard altogether. This would at least keep the tuning a little more simple and straightforward, but, again, you already own the Powercard and it mostly works, so why not continue down that route?

Some of this depends on how much ultimate power you want to make, as well. Option #1 will make your car safer, but may not greatly increase the potential ultimate power your setup can make. Option #2 would provide the most utlimate power potential of the three, but would be the most difficult to tune. Option #3 would be somewhere in the middle, with respect to power potential, but you'll likely not be able to tune as nice a fuel curve with the AFPR as you would the Powercard.

If you think you want a ****-ton more power and you want to try option #2, you should really just be looking at bigger injectors and an ECU replacement, like the Megasquirt, e-Manage, Link, etc.
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Old 01-31-2007, 01:35 PM   #33
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Here is what I am looking to do. I just want to safely run 11-12psi, a power increase is a bonus.

1) I will use the PC
2) I will add install the 315cc fuel injectors
3) I will swap the fuel pump for the Walbro 190lph

I just want to keep it as simple as possible. Should that about do it?
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Old 01-31-2007, 02:33 PM   #34
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Well, the 315cc injectors will likely make you run pig-rich. The stock ECU can only control slightly bigger injectors effectively. If it were that easy, quite a few people would just be running larger injectors and a PC/Voodoo.

As far as the fuel pump is concerned, if you're not going to use an AFPR, then a new fuel pump is not needed. Even with the AFPR, depending on your goals, the new pump may not be needed. It won't hurt anything to run the 190lph (except maybe your ears...from the constant drone behind your seat), but it won't help anything either.

Also, you need to shoot for a power goal, not a psi goal. 11-12psi on one setup can be completely different than 11-12psi on another setup. Besides, fuel per minute is a figure can be directly correlated to horsepower, but not boost pressure. That's why injectors are rated in cc/min or lb/hr.
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Old 01-31-2007, 02:57 PM   #35
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OK, so lets say I ran 150.5rwhp on a Dyno Dynamics...That equates to what on a Dynojet? Same, higher? I would like to be around 180-190rwhp. With that in mind, what do I need to do to get to that goal? My head is spinning, 'cause I thought I understood some things, but I figured out, with help, that I dont.

This is currently on the car
M45
62.5mm nose pulley
powercard
MSD
stock injectors
stock fuel pump
water injection- it was not installed on the 150.5 dyno run.
150mm crank overlay-not installed yet.
olderguys O2 Clamp-not installed yet
315cc Injectors sitting on the shelf

Sorry guys, I am/was a mainly JDM parts guy. I am pretty much a noob when it comes to forced induction.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96rdstr View Post
OK, so lets say I ran 150.5rwhp on a Dyno Dynamics...That equates to what on a Dynojet? Same, higher?
bout 15% higher on the dynojet. ummm 173 djrwhp.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:18 PM   #37
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Ok I want 15-20 more HP.....guide me masters!
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:18 PM   #38
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Yes, typically a Dynojet will read higher than a DD or Mustang dyno, but they could also have calibrated the dyno to approximate what a Dynojet would read. We really have no idea.

That being said, I seriously doubt you're making 180-190rwhp on an M45. I'm not familiar with your nose/crank pulley sizes, but how much boost do you see by redline? If you're at ~6-7psi, you're likely around 160rwhp.

So, where is the shelf installed in your car? You know the one on which the 315cc injectors are sitting... Maybe you should've made a separate column for things sitting on a shelf/not installed on the car

BTW, if you reach 180-190rwhp with the M45, you'll be in a club with about 10 other people, at most.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Yes, typically a Dynojet will read higher than a DD or Mustang dyno, but they could also have calibrated the dyno to approximate what a Dynojet would read. We really have no idea.

That being said, I seriously doubt you're making 180-190rwhp on an M45. I'm not familiar with your nose/crank pulley sizes, but how much boost do you see by redline? If you're at ~6-7psi, you're likely around 160rwhp.

So, where is the shelf installed in your car? You know the one on which the 315cc injectors are sitting... Maybe you should've made a separate column for things sitting on a shelf/not installed on the car

BTW, if you reach 180-190rwhp with the M45, you'll be in a club with about 10 other people, at most.
I hit 9psi right before fuel cutoff, according to the dyno sheet I have. So, I would say a usable 8psi. My boost gauge reads 8psi on full accelleration. As for the shelf, that is a project that I am working on. Trying to figure out the weld spots, then I need to get the car tested for drag efficiency.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
As far as the fuel pump is concerned, if you're not going to use an AFPR, then a new fuel pump is not needed.
True this. Many folks, myself included, are running injectors in the 440-550cc range on EMUs with the stock fuel pump. The factory pump has adequate flow capability for at least 250HP given sufficiently large injectors, it only starts to have trouble at very high pressures.

Edit: That's EMU, not EMB.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 01-31-2007 at 04:22 PM.
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