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Old 03-06-2007, 01:14 PM   #1
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Default Seeking advice on running line from trunk to engine.

So the washer bottle idea hasnít panned out- itís just too small and I find myself having to refill it every other day. But I finally located a 5 quart tank that I can mount in the trunk without killing too much space. Itís actually a Kart fuel tank, but itís perfect. And so I wanted to seek the advice of those who have gone before me to ask about routing a line from the trunk up to the engine compartment.

First off, the pump is located in the front of the car, mounted to the backside of the bumper just ahead of the right front tire. So far Iím very happy with this location, and Iíll probably leave it there.

The tank itself is going to go in one of two places- either on the shelf where the spare tire normally lives, or else in the recess above the jack- essentially a mirror image of the battery. (Iíll have to fabricate a plate to mount it on, and relocate the jack elsewhere.)

So in terms of routing the hose, I guess there are two options. One would be to mount the pickup in the bottom of the tank, running downwards, penetrate the floor of the trunk, and run it outside the car, probably fastened to the frame rail. Seems like getting it past the rear and front suspensions will be a challenge, and Iím wary of the hose being damaged by road debris. Plus itís going to pass very close to the exhaust.

Option 2 would be to mount the fitting into the side of the tank, and run the hose down the tunnel and along the floor in the interior of the car. Seems like a potentially safer scheme, though experience has taught me that trying to penetrate the firewall and actually pass a wire through it in this area is an activity best reserved for those condemned to spend eternity in the seventh level of Hell surrounded by child molesters and those members of the Ford design team responsible for creating the Taurus.

I donít think the orientation of the pickup is going to be critical. Whether itís facing up or facing sideways the point at which is becomes exposed will probably be about the same. So in my mind it comes down to the matter of robustness and ease of install.

Anybody care to offer their experiences, and possibly pictures as well?
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:34 PM   #2
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You intending on running just water or water Methanol mix Joe?

If your intending on mixing in Methanol i would be really weary about running it inside the car.


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Old 03-06-2007, 04:57 PM   #3
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Since I found out how cheap it is to buy methanol in volume I've been running it roughly 50/50 with distilled water.

I'm not really all that concerned about it. Since my washer bottle is so small I have been carrying a 1 gallon container of pre-mixed solution in the trunk ever since the system went it. Basically I just toss it into the recess formed by the rim of the spare tire. It has leaked several times when I forgot to tighten the cap sufficiently and yet the car hasn't exploded nor have I been killed by the fumes.

From what I've seen of others' installations I think I'm certainly not in the minority among Miata owners. Many folks using old gas cans, poly bottles and such all in the trunk, and no reports of any WI-related fatalities yet.

I suppose if I really wanted to be paranoid I could seal the cap and instead run a dedicated vent line outside the trunk as Mazda has done with the battery. If the car explodes I'll definately implement that on the next one.
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:38 PM   #4
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how about just a grommet through the trunk area and some of those screwdown tubing clamps under the car in strategic places and up through the engine bay? I'm sure you can get enough poly hose or Aluminum tubing from the hardware store to do it.
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:39 PM   #5
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What about using a hardline? Should be able to use the same routing as the fuel line.
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s
how about just a grommet through the trunk area and some of those screwdown tubing clamps under the car in strategic places and up through the engine bay?
Well, that's pretty much Option #1. Doable, but having looked at the possible paths, scratched my head, and asked myself "How on earth am I going to get the tubing around the rear suspension?" I was hoping maybe to see some pictures from someone who has Been There, Done That(tm).


Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72
What about using a hardline? Should be able to use the same routing as the fuel line.
Isn't methanol corrosive to aluminum and steel? I like the idea (and hadn't thought of it until you mentioned it) but I don't know what materials (other than poly, PTFE, etc) it's compatable with.
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:33 PM   #7
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Stainless should be good to go. Is everything in the DO kit made of brass?

MSDS:

Quote:
Storage: Store in totally enclosed equipment, designed to avoid ignition and human contact. Tanks must be grounded, vented, and should have vapour emission controls. Tanks must be diked. Avoid storage with incompatible materials. Anhydrous methanol is non-corrosive to most metals at ambient temperatures except for lead, nickel, monel, cast iron and high silicon iron. Coatings of copper (or copper alloys), zinc (including galvanized steel), or aluminum are unsuitable for storage. These materials may be attacked slowly by the methanol. Storage tanks of welded construction are normally satisfactory. They should be designed and built in conformance with good engineering practice for the material being stored. While plastics can be used for short term storage, they are generally not recommended for long-term storage due to deterioration effects and the subsequent risk of contamination.

Corrosion rates for several construction materials:
<0.508 mm/year Cast iron, monel, lead, nickel
<0.051 mm/year High silicon iron
Some attack Polyethylene
Satisfactory Neoprene, phenolic resins, polyesters, natural rubber, butyl rubber
Resistant Polyvinyl chloride, unplasticized
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Anhydrous methanol is non-corrosive to most metals
Anhydrous, meaning "without water." But we're talking about solutions that are greater than 50% water by volume. So that rules out natural steel tubing. Alumininum tubing is also out since it's highly reactive with methanol, ditto copper tubing. And I'm going to avoid anodized or plated tube on the idea that all it takes is one little nick in the coating to start a corrosive reaction. So that leaves stainless, which I guess would be a valid option. Summit has got plenty of it and it seems reasonably priced. Need to see if I can find the right fittings for that.

But anyway, aside from this nice refresher course in Properties of Materials, anybody care to share their hose routing tips, assuming I'm using Run of the Mill poly tubing??
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Old 03-06-2007, 08:26 PM   #9
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I went through the tunnel under the passenger side runner and through the firewall. but I dont plan to use non-water.
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:22 PM   #10
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I ran the line through a grommet in the trunk by the battery. Then down along the brake lines then to the engine compartment...
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Old 03-06-2007, 09:38 PM   #11
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i mounted my main resevior on the back of the trunk wall, and my aux resevoir a 1 gallon gas can glued to a baord where the spare used to sit. routed it along the back of the trunk under the carpet etc, until i reached the pump. From there i went through the grommet for drainage in the jack recess.
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:30 AM   #12
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So two external to the car and one through the interior. Parallelling the brake lines is an interesting isde- a convenient point to secure the water line to.

Y8S- I'm curious as to where exactly you passed the line through the firewall. I've run several wires through it (using the little rubber grommet behind the fuse box) and it's always been a chore: lots of swearing and prodding with a coat-hanger.
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:00 AM   #13
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Again, pics coming soon - probably within 7 days...

I'm running a 1 gal poly gas can by the battery with the fill line external through the body (I fill without opening the trunk) and the pump sitting right by the gas can. I ran some wire loom through a hole in the pax "tunnel" (behind the seat) to access the underside of the car (wire loom to keep the sheet metal from cutting the tubing). From there I ran the tubing down the PPF to the engine compartment. I attached it with ty-wraps to the wire harness on the PPF. I have not gone further but it will probably be ty-wrapped to the fuel hard lines and spray into the IC outlet pipe (drilled/tapped a few inches before the TB but the metal was so thick that I ran out of threads on the DO nozzle.
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