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Old 07-10-2007, 03:53 PM   #1
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Default W/I noob or wanna be.....

Hello everyone.

I have a 1994 1.8 MX5 with a m45 coldside supercharger fitted. (running an EMB for fuel/timing)

To get more power out of it (more timing back) I need to run W/I.

The manifold is tapped for individual cylinder W/I nozzels.

Sooo what kit do I need to get me more timing. Needs to be 4 jets/nozzles and controlable via the EMB extra injector map.

Is there a kit available that suits my needs if so where?

I can get this kit quite cheaply Devils Own Basic Kit what else would I need to add? is it a good starting point?

Sorry for the blatent ignorance, but there is ALOT of reading in this forum, i've only just got my head round the EMB
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:12 PM   #2
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Not sure if DO has a kit to go individual port....you may have to go with the more expensive aquamist if you wanna go with an advanced system, but I haven't heard of any successful setup with the EMB. DO does have a progressive kit that runs off a 0-5v signal which may suit your needs on the cheap.

I find just my simple setup with a 3gph nozzle and pressure switch works awesome....my car pulls like it's 60F outside on these 100+F days (I've pulled a total of 4-6 degrees from my upper rows). If I were in your shoes, I would probably go with a simple progressive system and spend more money on safeguarding the WI since you don't have an intercooler. If you get the EMB to work with the extra injector mapping, be sure to post your results and install!
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:28 PM   #3
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you can run some very small nozzles on the individual intake tracts but in the end with a simple kit and single nozzle will work just fine for you.
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Old 07-10-2007, 11:12 PM   #4
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The Devils Own kits are even cheaper through the sale in this forum. They don't offer a direct port kit although you could certainly plumb one up with parts they supply. Its seems a little excessive though. I would do a single nozzle directly before or after the supercharger. Positive Displacement supercharger setups seem to do quite well with the basic kit since they create boost so quickly. You are usually at full boost or no boost.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:58 PM   #5
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Problem is that with the coldside kit there isn't really anywhere else to inject.

The intake manifold is a new part and the supercharger sits directly on top of it.

And its hard to inject pre blower as its just a flexible hose that connect to the jackson racing CAI under the intake/supercharger and up the back of the firewall into the throttle body (throttle body is moved to the rear of the engine bay) not very much room at all.

I thought controlling the W/I via EMB was do-able and had been done before? Was I dreaming?

Last edited by mssansserif; 07-11-2007 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:08 PM   #6
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dude if you dont need it sealed for vac then tapping the intake is simple or maybe use some real pipe and tap that. Once you start making some real hp and hte flex hose flattens like a bendy straw you will be wishing you had. it is not like what we propose is hard on the contrary it is very easy.
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:02 PM   #7
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I know i don't know anything abou W/I and I don't want to get pissy over it I apreciate you taking time to reply.

But....

You are a turbo man, have you seen a coldside kit fitted?

It is drilled and tapped for a nozzle right before each fuel injector, why would I want to inject pre blower and risk uneven distribution. Plus its not as easy as you have decided.

And I have an ECU that can control a fuel injector against load and RPM, there must be something that will use that to meter water.

And seriously how much power do you think I will be running to collapse a pipe that will only see vac if the airfilter can't provide enough air?
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:14 PM   #8
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aquamist makes a high speed valve that does exactly what you need. It's unnecessarily expensive, but works in the manner you want it to. It's a 13 ohm load, just like a high z fuel injector, so your emb will love it.

you are not going to get a lot of charge cooling with the nozzles that close to the motor, but you will get a lot of detonation suppression. suggest you run a water/meth mixture to increase ocatane and further supress detonation

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Old 07-11-2007, 09:39 PM   #9
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OK msssarif buthell i have made close to 250whp on a simple on off system so yeah it works. hell even now i just using a 2 stage simple system. unless you want to learn alot more about WI spend more money and try to get your 200 whp totall potential JRSC to the point where you have another 1K$ init or better then by all means continue. But for how much hp you wil be making a simple kit is the best and well easiest solution. The water is metered by the jet and pump pressure, all you need to controll it is a boost pressure switch wich is supplied with the kit.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
aquamist makes a high speed valve that does exactly what you need. It's unnecessarily expensive, but works in the manner you want it to. It's a 13 ohm load, just like a high z fuel injector, so your emb will love it.

you are not going to get a lot of charge cooling with the nozzles that close to the motor, but you will get a lot of detonation suppression. suggest you run a water/meth mixture to increase ocatane and further supress detonation

Ben
I thought the lower IATs were what suppressed the detonation in the first place.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
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I thought the lower IATs were what suppressed the detonation in the first place.
With the nozzles close to the motor, the water won't get a chance to lower the charge temp, and since the injection is post IAT sensor, the ECU won't have a clear picture if temps did substantially drop. Also realize that the water is going to heat up from engine bay heat. You can't get tremendous cooling from 90F water in 100F air.

What does lower the deto threshold is the fact that in-cylinder temps will lower. Why? Remember what detonation is: auto ignition of fuel caused by heat occuring before the spark event. Cool down the cylinder, and you're less likely to have auto ignition. There are a lot of things that can be done to do so, spraying water into the cylinder is one of them.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
With the nozzles close to the motor, the water won't get a chance to lower the charge temp, and since the injection is post IAT sensor, the ECU won't have a clear picture if temps did substantially drop. Also realize that the water is going to heat up from engine bay heat. You can't get tremendous cooling from 90F water in 100F air.

What does lower the deto threshold is the fact that in-cylinder temps will lower. Why? Remember what detonation is: auto ignition of fuel caused by heat occuring before the spark event. Cool down the cylinder, and you're less likely to have auto ignition. There are a lot of things that can be done to do so, spraying water into the cylinder is one of them.
Ah. It's the difference between lower cylinder temperatures = lower overall temps and lower IAT temperatures = lower overall temps. Thanks.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
I thought the lower IATs were what suppressed the detonation in the first place.
The amount of heat added to the air at the supercharger or turbocharger (which we can directly observe as IAT) is fairly small compared to the amount of heat generated inside the cylinder during the compression stroke. Thus, although reduction in IAT (by intercooling, for instance) is beneficial, it should not be viewed as the single determing factor.

Putting atomized water droplets into the combustion chamber allows some of this thermal energy to go towards vaporizing the water as opposed to heating the air.
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