suvend

Hi everyone,

I got my turboed engine in my car over the weekend and just got to try to start it. Getting spark and fuel to the engine, and have set the timing to 10 using CAS and MS the rest of the way but the car does not start. I am using E85 and so according to my local dyno tuner who I will be taking the car to I scaled my injector size down 30% from 700cc to 490cc. Tried with both of these parameters and got no start. I will try to attach the tune I'm using, disregard the title I just downloaded a base 1.6 tune to begin off of.

Thanks for any help,
Happy new year.

rwyatt365

Are your cam and crank sensors connected?
Is the trigger wheel on in the right direction (and not "out" side, in)?
Is your cam timing spot-on (are the cams turning at all)?
Will it fire on the stock ECU?
Would you consider draining the E85 and attempt a start on pump-gas?

I didn't look at your tune (yet), but these are some basics that pop readily to mind.

curly

iTrader: (25)

It’ll really help if you attach a log of the attempted start as well

suvend

I will try to figure out how to do that, in the mean time are you able to give a quick explanation how?

curly

iTrader: (25)

Ctrl-L, type “start attempt”, enter.

then try to start the car. Crank for 5-7 seconds, maybe do this twice.

ctrl-K. Attach the log you just made here.

suvend

Here is a start attempt.

suvend

As I believe this is a timing issue, where should I be trying to get my Super Damper to line up with my timing light? Photo is taken with first cylinder at top dead center.

suvend

With cam gears aligned I can only get 20 teeth between the marks instead of 20

Wingman703

There's far too much slack in that belt. Your cam timing is a tooth off. Should be 19 teeth in-between the cam marks. Double check your crank mark as well.
Your reading 68kpa at ambient and that doesn't change much while cranking, also not right unless your located on mount everest. You should have around 100kpa depending on your exact elevation. Where is your vacuum source?
Your also stuck at 10:1 AFR? Is your gauge/indication broken or do you really have so much fuel in the engine that its still pegged max rich even when not cranking?
Your battery is dropping all the way to 7.5 volts while cranking. This is far below what MS wants to properly operate, I'm somewhat suprised it didn't shut down the ECU. Throw a good jumpbox on there, or hook up some starter cables, your battery isn't cutting it with only 11 volts unloaded, and is struggling to hit 200 cranking RPM.
The good news: You don't have any sync errors. Your cam and crank sensors seem to be properly reporting.

E/ I hope the way your timing belt is routed in the picture is NOT how you actually have run? It goes inside both bearings. Not outside like the driver's currently is.

suvend

Hey! Thanks for all the info, I’m not too experienced a tuner so i’ll try to fix some of the things you said when I get a chance. As for the AFR being 10:1 pinned i’m not quite sure if this is because my injector settings were incorrect and there was a ton of fuel or if my O2 sensor is set up improperly. I have a LC-2 I purchased from innovate which is connected directly to the stock harness point for the old sensor, is this proper or should I have used the pin on my MS2 for O2 sensor a plugged it in there and then followed their guide

“How do I configure TunerStudio for the Innovate LC series”

Was trying to figure that out after I had given up for the day.

Also no I did not run the car with that much slack in the timing belt, I ended up letting the springs push the exhaust cam about half a tooth forward and that allowed me to get 19 teeth between, with the cam gears as close as I could get to exactly lined up.

In addition yes the car had been sitting so my battery was very low but we had a charger on it the whole time.

Can you explain what the kpa is and what you mean by where am I getting vaccum from? Do you mean where is the ECU getting vaccum from?

Thanks again for the response

Wingman703

Your charger isn't providing enough cranking amperage, or your battery is just so shot it's not helping enough. You want as close to 12v during cranking as possible. 7.5v during cranking just isn't going to cut it even if everything else is perfect.
kPa or Kilopascals is the measure of manifold pressure megasquirt and the majority of after market ECU's use. Ambient pressure at sea level is 100kpa, and with the engine off your engine will be at this same pressure. You're reading 68ish kPa, so eather you are very, very high in altitude, or you have your ECU vacuum source incorrectly plumbed. Not every port on the manifold leads to the intake chamber, IIRC one or two just kinda... End, and these will lead to incorrect vacuum readings. Assuming that you have your baro sensor correctly configured, I haven't had a chance to look at your raw tune fine.

suvend

I have my ecu plumbed into the same spot where it was T-ed in before, the connection to the FPR so ai think i am correctly getting vaccum. Though, I did disconnect my IC piping because I wasn’t sure if my turbo was having some ill effects. I’ll try using jumpers or something in my battery.

suvend

Oh I see, do you know anything about my O2 sensor situation? Like having the LC-2 wired into the stock harness point is the right way to do it or should I have it in the options port on my MS2. That could be why I have 10:1 constantly


Also could the low vaccum be because I had my IC piping disconnected?

rwyatt365

The O2 sensor MUST be wired into the options port. The MS2 will (probably) ignore the stock NBO2 signal and give a reading for a 0V signal that it expects on the options port.

curly

iTrader: (25)

This can be done at the ecu. Depin the NBO2 at the ecu connector, cut, strip, and crimp to an options port input.

and as far as I know, the ecu won’t injector fuel below 9v. Other weird **** happens down there too, but that’s a hard cut as far as I’m aware. Keep an eye on that while cranking next time.

suvend

Ah that makes sense why it hasn’t ever read anything but 10:1, even on my stock engine. I’ll give this a shot, as well as wiring in my IAT, something i didn’t realize i needed after removing the MAF. This means i will have to get vaccum from somewhere else for my
boost solenoid, I have heard that somewhere on the intake ahead of the compressor is a good spot. Can anyone confirm?

curly

iTrader: (25)

Yea, most turbos have a port on the compressor housing.

suvend

Unfortunately my pulsar turbo only has a turbine speed sensor hole, so somewhere on the intake is my next best bet? Or is it better to be in the IC piping

curly

iTrader: (25)

Well the intake isn’t charged, so if you don’t want to remove the compressor housing to drill/tap it, you’d want to weld a bung to the intercooler pipe just before the throttle body. These are typically all 1/8npt btw.

suvend

Ahh alright i’ll figure something out, thanks again curly