flounder

Made the switch from an emanage blue to a mspnp2 on the old '99 turbo, holy crap what a learning curve! I got it running on the diy base map and set base timing so far. It starts and will drive as long as im just cruising and short shifting. Anytime i'm approaching boost, i feel like the knock sensor is kicking in or someshit?

Anyway, I have a million questions but I'll start with a few...

1. the diy base map. I assume its for a stock 99-00 car, which mine is not. Are the basic settings in ms setup specifically for the 99-00, or is it just the fuel and timing that's for the '99-00?
2. I used port 21 to wire in my lc1, I unplugged my upstream sensor, as well as my maf. is that correct? Im getting a 1 afr difference between my lc1 gauge and the MS. gauge reads 13.5 vs 14.5 on the ms is there an adjustment on MS? The lc1 controller is set to both yellow and brown wires are wideband.
3. Since the nb is 60psi returnless, are the fuel injector inputs on the ms accurate to that or 43.5psi? the car has a return fuel conversion with an afpr set to 60psi at the moment, but can be changed if it makes tuning easier?
4. my car usually stays around 200f-204f in normal driving using a scantool to view the ect pid, but now the ms shows its always between 210-215f. Nothing has changed with the cooling system since the ms install, is there a way to fine tune the ect signal? my fan does come on around 210ish.
5. charging system- running, Im seeing 13.8-14v which is good yes? ive been reading about blown up batteries and alternators with the mspnp on the nbs
4.does anyone have a basic checklist for the settings I need to change in basic, fuel, and timing? I feel like there are so many options to choose from that Im going to **** something up bad lol

rwyatt365

Welcome to the wonderful world of the MS (PNP2 Division, where we like doing things the old fashioned way)!

1. The base map is pretty much a "safe" batch of settings that'll get you started (barely) and running (often, poorly). I don't know that it is 99-00 specific, but just that it's good enough and covers a broad range.
2. You're using a LC1? Sorry for your loss. I gave up on the LC1 years ago because I found that the "calibration" drifted and ultimately the readings were inaccurate. There is a "Calibrate AFR Table" menu where you can tell the MS what sensor you're using, or even put in some custom settings. Unless your LC1 is exceptional, you'll be in that setting quite often.
3. I think that the FI outputs are "expecting" the stock fuel pressure level. I'm not sure if you can guarantee linearity to 60psi. My guess is, if you're set up for return fuel, then you're better off than us poor schlubs that haven't done that yet.
4. There is a place to calibrate the temp sensor - "Calibrate Thermistor" in the Tools menu.
5. The MSPNP2 is not set up to control the alternator of the NB's (stock control of that happens in the stock ECU). You can either go "unregulated" (bad for you battery), or there are some hacks that'll get that voltage regulation back. I'm not an EE, so I elected to go with a RX-7 alternator which is self-regulated (but requires a hack to turn on the self-exciter when the car is started).
6. Settings to check?
- Make sure that Req Fuel is properly set
- Make sure that your spark timing is correct
- Turn off the more "exotic" features (EGO Control, Acel Enrichment, Knock Sensing, Closed Loop Idle, etc)
- If your idle is stable with the base map, then try driving conservatively with VE Analyzer running to get your VE Table "better"
- If your idle is too high, too low, or "hunting" you'll have to go down the idle tuning rabbit hole
- When you feel relatively confident with fueling try starting with some tweaks to the spark table but (BE CAREFUL! Detonation is your enemy)
- Datalog early and log often! Personally, I've found that MegaLogViewer HD is worth the cost - the histogram function is "da bomb"!
- Take notes on what you've changed and what the result was. You WILL make mistakes and you WILL have to backtrack...often.

I'm 6 years into my PNP2 and I'm still tweaking things here and there - it never ends.

flounder

Good advice, thanks!

after having some real difficult running issues, it's finally getting better. I still have about a 1afr difference between my lc1 gauge and the ms gauge, idk why? I am sharing a ground point for both and my lm programmer settings are identical. Can I manipulate the lm programmer numbers to correct this?

more questions to anyone nice enough to sprinkle some knowledge on me lol

1. Does the required fuel setting trump the engine and injector size settings, or do they work in conjunction with each other?

2. Anyone know where to find a tuner for this thing in metro detroit? Im striking out everywhere! Either they dont understand megasquirt or hate miatas, but I can't find anyone to take my money and dyno tune this ******.

rwyatt365

Ah, an lc1 - that explains it all. Just kidding, I had problems trying to get an lc1 to agree with the MS years ago, and gave up trying. I have no answer for that.

For your other questions;
1. Req. Fuel works with other settings to determine what the pulsewidth should be. There's an equation somewhere that shows that.
2. Can't help there. I was in Metro Detroit 10 years ago and couldn't find a tuner there anywhere.

flounder

I think I'm getting the hang of this thing!
I've been driving around with the wga unhooked, and tuning drivability in cruise and accel up to 100kpa for the past week. it now starts and idles fine, afrs stay within 12-14 throughout the entire rev range and it settles nicely at 1k rpm coming off revs in neutral. Just this morning I reattached the wga and started tuning the upper cells of the maps and damn it feels good to have some positive pressures again lol. Makes me remember why I turbo'd this thing in the first place.

More questions/opinions
I've had the afr table correction disabled during this process,now that the ve map is decent, should I enable it again?
What timing numbers are best for idle zone? i was at 14 to start, but ive slowly bumped it up to 18 and vacuum is a steady 20inhg now and idle seems more stable, do you think thats too much?
my ve table numbers are in the 40s at idle and approach 70s by 100kpa, at 12psi im in the 90s, is that normal? a lot of maps ive seen have numbers in the 200s in boost.

rwyatt365

Plug your WG back in and run VEAL only in your in-boost area to get a baseline before enabling AFR correction. Once you get that done, I'd suggest turning on EGO Correction and setting up your AFR table, but set the EGO Correction to be VERY conservative, then do datalogs and look at when and where corrections are being made (without it making drastic changes to your VE settings). That way you can make spot changes to the VE table to get closer to your AFR targets. Once you're confident with that, then you can open up your correction values with confident. "Pro Tip"; I purchased MegaLogViewer HD for it's Histogram Views. Then I could set up a view where the "bins" correspond to my VE table and the cells are the sampled EGO Corrections. With that, I can see what cells in the VE table I should tweak to bring the AFR's closer to my desired AFR Table values.

My VE values sound like yours. My peak VE values (at more than 215kPa) are just barely over 100 and I'm getting AFR's that are 11.5 - 12.

flounder

Awesome info thanks, any input on the idle timing? I'll post some pics of my ve and timing maps after work today.

rwyatt365

My idle cell timing is at 14.5 degrees. My idle tuning could stand for some work (the RPM's "hunt" a little at idle, but not enough to be worrisome), I'm using CL Idle (that's a whole 'nuther thang!).

flounder

This car is putting a huge smile on my face! All the driveability issues i was having with the emanage are gone, and this thing just plain hauls ***.

I purchased registration for tuner studio and mega log viewer over the weekend too, to help fine tune since I still can't find a dyno that wants to mess with my little mazda.

Boost is set to 16psi, and I left the fuel pressures alone at 58 with vac attached to the regulator. I wonder if my boosted cells are lower than most because of the 1:1 fpr?

rwyatt365

You might want to plug some headphones into the 3.5mm port and listen for knock (just to be sure there's no detonation). And you might want to ease up on the boost until you're sure about your in-boost AFR's. Other than that, if you're happy then drive on. Or...there are further adventures waiting for you with;
- Closed-loop idle
- EGO Correction
- Acceleration Enrichment (AE) and/or Extended AE (EAE)
- Electronic Boost Control
- Launch Control

You have started on the first steps towards Nirvana.

flounder

Lets hope so haha.

I'm sure there's a better way to post these maps but...


93 octane, IC