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Old 08-20-2015, 08:17 PM   #1
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Default What is Waste COP vs Wasted Spark

I'm wondering about the benefits of wasted Cop vs. wasted spark? Will it work on a MS2 1.2 MSPNP on a 92 miata with a 1.6? If so whats the advantage?
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:31 PM   #2
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Are you on drugs?

Wasted cop and wasted spark are identical. Sequential spark might give you more dwell time, something you probably don't need, and that's about it.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:51 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Yes, it's still worth it. The functional differences between sequential and batch ignition are pretty small and mostly relate to coil heat and longevity. The vast majority of kits that go out are set up for batch-fire, and you still get all the spark strength benefits of the better coils even when they are fired in batch.
This is what Andrew from Trackspeed Engineering told me...

I just recently switched mine to COPS and am running them wasted spark.
I would assume that you can run COPS in Wasted spark, I'm not sure if your MS2 has enough I/O for seq. ignition.
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Old 08-21-2015, 12:59 AM   #4
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Thanks,

From what I understand my MS2 does not support sequential spark as currently configured. It seems the suggestion is sell the MS2 and go with a MS3 if you have to have that feature. I'm trying to sort out a spark problem and wondered if thing be part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by konmo View Post
This is what Andrew from Trackspeed Engineering told me...

I just recently switched mine to COPS and am running them wasted spark.
I would assume that you can run COPS in Wasted spark, I'm not sure if your MS2 has enough I/O for seq. ignition.
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Old 08-21-2015, 01:04 AM   #5
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No, I'm not on drugs. I asked the question because I have been running COPS for a long time now, but never changed from spark. When I did the setting to Wasted COPs today i got a conflict. After I got the conflict I started searching to see if I could find anything that might help explain the difference with the hope of understanding how they are different. I wouldn't think they are the same, or their wouldn't be a separate option. Did it make you feel good to ask if I was on drugs. I've done several searches and can't find anything that seemed to answer my question. What should I do the next time I have a questions I can't answer to avoid have you asking if I do drugs. For the record I don't drink Alcohol either.

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Are you on drugs?

Wasted cop and wasted spark are identical. Sequential spark might give you more dwell time, something you probably don't need, and that's about it.
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:20 AM   #6
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Wasted COP is a setting for firing 4 spark drivers in a wasted config, this is why you get a config error if you try and use it as you are using the other two outputs somewhere. It is identical in function to the wasted spark setting, although it will not work inside the megasquirt the same.

Your MS2 will do sequential ignition, but then it won't do AC idle up or fan control. If you were to wire it up that way you would select coil on plug for sequential ignition. If you wanted to test wasted spark against sequential you could pick the wasted COP setting, then you wouldn't need to wire the spark outputs back together.

I asked if you were on drugs because your question is worded like someone on drugs. You should try and actually make sense when asking questions, then I can actually answer the question you want to ask.

The only advantages of sequential ignition is there is no wasted spark, sparks make heat in the coil and coils must charge to make a spark. If you waste a spark the coil only has half as long to charge, and half as long to cool down.

It's not something you need for a normal redline miata and any coils you should be bothering using.
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:57 AM   #7
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Thanks you for the explanation. My goal isn't to run sequential spark. I'm trying to trouble shoot why only the middle to coils are firing, but yet I have power on all 4. I didn't know if maybe that setting for wasted cop had something to do it. That and I just switched to sequential ignition. I'm using the Fab 9 kit now versus my older Toyota Cops.

Again thanks for explaining it.

QUOTE=deezums;1259076]Wasted COP is a setting for firing 4 spark drivers in a wasted config, this is why you get a config error if you try and use it as you are using the other two outputs somewhere. It is identical in function to the wasted spark setting, although it will not work inside the megasquirt the same.

Your MS2 will do sequential ignition, but then it won't do AC idle up or fan control. If you were to wire it up that way you would select coil on plug for sequential ignition. If you wanted to test wasted spark against sequential you could pick the wasted COP setting, then you wouldn't need to wire the spark outputs back together.

I asked if you were on drugs because your question is worded like someone on drugs. You should try and actually make sense when asking questions, then I can actually answer the question you want to ask.

The only advantages of sequential ignition is there is no wasted spark, sparks make heat in the coil and coils must charge to make a spark. If you waste a spark the coil only has half as long to charge, and half as long to cool down.

It's not something you need for a normal redline miata and any coils you should be bothering using.[/QUOTE]
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:20 AM   #8
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Your back on the dope again, you say your goal isn't running sequential spark, but then you say you just switched to sequential ignition which is the same thing? I am confused?

It's a pretty bad idea to just change and try ignition settings, I really think you oughta slow down before you just go trying things.

The middle two coils will fire together on 99.9% of MS2 setups, doesn't matter if they are cops or not. If 1 and 4 aren't sparking it's likely something to do with the first spark driver, IG1 on the MS2. The proper setting should be wasted spark, even if they are cops. Once you've got that setting you could try manually triggering the coils by the test mode, just to make sure.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:47 AM   #9
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Still no dope, but I understand why that was confusing. I should have said I switched to sequential injection not sequential spark. Its was a really long day.
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Old 08-21-2015, 02:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Your back on the dope again, you say your goal isn't running sequential spark, but then you say you just switched to sequential ignition which is the same thing? I am confused?

It's a pretty bad idea to just change and try ignition settings, I really think you oughta slow down before you just go trying things.

The middle two coils will fire together on 99.9% of MS2 setups, doesn't matter if they are cops or not. If 1 and 4 aren't sparking it's likely something to do with the first spark driver, IG1 on the MS2. The proper setting should be wasted spark, even if they are cops. Once you've got that setting you could try manually triggering the coils by the test mode, just to make sure.
+1 Try spark in test mode and see if 1&4 fire. If it doesn't I would also double check the wiring at the igniter harness. Settings should be wasted spark just like deezums says.
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:02 PM   #11
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It looks like the issue has been narrowed down to the ignition module. Fab9 is sending a new one, and hopefully it will be here early next week.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:38 PM   #12
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Default What is Waste COP vs Wasted Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Are you on drugs?

Wasted cop and wasted spark are identical. Sequential spark might give you more dwell time, something you probably don't need, and that's about it.
No they arent.
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Old 08-23-2015, 04:07 PM   #13
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Would you care to explain how they differ, exactly, instead of just posting crap?

If it's that wasted COP fires off 4 spark drivers I've already got that covered.
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Old 08-23-2015, 07:09 PM   #14
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I was posting from phone. but to say they are the same is crap, are you on drugs?

wasted spark is (2) spark drivers sparking (2) coils, driving 4 cylinders.
wasted cop is (4) spark drivers sparking (4) separate coils, but firing like wasted spark.

the end result is the same, but there's much more to it. The vast majority of all MS users are not going to ever be able to use wasted COP. It was just as bad saying they were the same thing.




FAB9 coils dont pay well with MS. make sure you have the updated module that "supports" MS.




im just very late to game and all this doesnt matter cuase you all got it covered...
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:16 PM   #15
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<p>Can one set up wasted spark on COP with 2 drivers, each connected to two coils?</p>
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:19 PM   #16
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most do.

only a few here actually run seq. spark.
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Old 08-25-2015, 01:47 AM   #17
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The new module didn't change anything. Any suggestions?
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
most do.

only a few here actually run seq. spark.
I dunno why, it's easy to set up. All you need to do is run 2 wires, and IMHO it's actually cleaner to do that it way and run all 4 wires so that you don't need to hack up the factory wiring harness.

But yeah, works fine in waste mode.

--Ian
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:37 AM   #19
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Because then you can't have a ms2 control fans or Ac idle up, I'd rather ecu control over my fans than sequential spark. I don't need more dwell, my coils aren't melting, I see no point

If it's a 1.6 you can make a new stub harness off the ignitor, plug and play.
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:08 AM   #20
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I could tell the difference between wasted spark and Seq. Spark using the same coils.

for one I was able to remove fuel throughout the map, and it just seemed smoother overall.


I'd reach out to DIY and see what they have to say about the MSPNP and the FAB9 coils.

Last edited by Braineack; 08-28-2015 at 02:40 PM.
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