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Old 01-18-2009, 09:48 PM   #1
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Default wont start w/out throttle open

i have a 90 1.6 that wont start and run w/out the throttle open it turns over fine and has fuel, spark, compression but wont fire unless i open the throttle up. i started it once doing this but wouldnt run w/out the throttle open and throttle position didnt affect rpms like it should
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:11 PM   #2
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have you tuned your cranking, ASE and warmup settings?
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:22 AM   #3
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No i have not but the car should still be able to start from the base map so i can set timing
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Old 01-19-2009, 11:59 AM   #4
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Reduce your cranking pulse width a little; not starting unless you give it more throttle often means you're too rich.
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:05 PM   #5
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i tried reducing pw and it seemed to help bc it is really close to starting but still wont run
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:16 PM   #6
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my mspnp wont communicate after trying to download firmware it said "what?" instead or counting the 1700 line and it doesnt light up or turn on the pump now or communicate with megatune
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:34 AM   #7
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Try reloading it, and if you get the same error message, please post a screen shot of it. There may be a few clues in the message about how to fix it.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:03 PM   #8
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this is what comes up when i try and reload

If you are upgrading from standard Megasquirt code you will need to
use the boot jumper soon. If you are upgrading from Megasquirtnspark,
DualTable, MegasquirtnEDIS or an earlier MSnS-extra this program
will do it for you.
.
If you are unsure then press Y to quit - press Q
.
.
.
. Please read the README file!!!
.
Are you upgrading from standard Megasquirt code [Y,N,Q]?N
.
This should count up to 1700+ lines
.
src\download.exe -c4 msns-extra.s19
MS Download 1.10
ă - wha▓Download failed:
Expected response "
Boot>",
but received this "ă - wha".
Press any key to continue . . .
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:28 PM   #9
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ive been emailing with diyautotune and recomended i post this info on here

i did port check and this what i got

COM3 Opened
9600 baud
"s"ing 's'
115200 baud
"s"ing 's'
COM4 Opened
9600 baud
""ying 's'
115200 baud
""ying 's'
2 valid ports found.
Hit return when done...



Can you get the MSPNP to communicate now or is it still not communicating? If it isn't communicating, try running a program called "port check", it will scan the available com ports and then report what it finds. To do this check, you'll need the program portcheck.exe, which comes with most MegaTune versions, including the one on the DIYAutotune.com website. You'll find it in the MegaTune2.25 folder. If you don't have a copy, download it here:

http://www.diyautotune.com/downloads.../portCheck.zip

Power up the MSPNP and connect it to your PC. You do not need to open the case and should not put the boot jumper in place for this test. Close MegaTune if it's running, and run the portcheck.exe program. When this program starts, it will scan the available COM ports.

If the port it's scanning is not connected to a working Megasquirt, or it's on the wrong speed, it'll say "No connection made." If it's on the right port and right speed, it will give you the version of the Megasquirt firmware that's on the Megasquirt. Note that some Megasquirt firmware versions will look like earlier versions with this test - for example, 029V identifies it as 029Q. This is for backwards compatibility.

If you get a port where it replies with "S" or something else that doesn't look like a firmware version, this port is probably a fake COM port that echos back everything that's typed. Let me know what it says.

If you plug the stock ECU back in, does the fuel pump prime then?

Back to the original problem, how do you know that its not the Cam timing? Have you verified the cam timing on this engine? You said it was flooded at some point, how bad was that? Is there a chance that the wiring harness may have been damaged or something like that?

Also, I'd recommend updating your thread on Miataturbo with all of the information in these emails. There is some very knowledgeable guys on there, but they'll need the full story in order to help.

Thanks,

Justin Shahan
Technical support
DIYAutoTune.com


BTW - Please 'Reply w/ History' on any responses to help us keep things straight around here


[email protected] wrote:




it doesnt light up or prime pump but when i would switch the key between run and acc the mspnp led flashes if i have the igniter pluggd in


From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]


now the mspnp wont communicate at all. i tried to reload firmware and it didnt work instead of counting the 1700 lines it said "what?" and now it wont communicate


the car starts and idles for 20-30 secs. and then dies or if i open the throttle it dies instead of rpms rising. i know its not cam timing but i cant say for sure about the cas ive tried adjusting it but hasnt helped i do have a larger pump and a dual feed rail but my fuel psi gauge is reading normal psi while i had the stock ecu in i checked to see if it had codes and the check engine light went out when normally it wouldstay on or flash a code?




From: DIYAutoTune.com Sales (Jerry) <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; DIYAutoTune Sales (Justin) <[email protected]>


Either the fueling needs of this engine are vastly different from stock, or the timing is way off (CAS to ECU timing, or Cam timing since you just had the motor gone through). I'm leaning towards timing, though fuel could be the culprit-- it would be somewhat unusual for the fuel needs at idle to be so far off that the base map on the MSPNP didn't fire the car up and idle it well though. We've dropped these things is fully prepped IT cars, turned the key and lit them right up.


Thanks!

Jerry Hoffmann
DIYAutoTune.com


[email protected] wrote:
i got it to start with the mspnp but it idles low and crappy and wont stay running and now it pops and dies if i open the throttle. i tried putting the stock ecu back in and it wont start with it but i dont kno if that ecu is any good bc before i started dismantling the car there was stnding water and the kick panel was realy rusty

thanks
Josh



From: DIYAutoTune Sales (Justin) <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]

Josh,

Is there anyway to plug the stock ECU in and see what happens? I'm thinking that there might be something else going wrong here.

Thanks,

Justin Shahan
Technical support
DIYAutoTune.com


BTW - Please 'Reply w/ History' on any responses to help us keep things straight around here


[email protected] wrote:
my car has stock injectors, motor has been rebuilt new rods,pistons etc. larger intake valve port&polish all that good stuff. I never ran the car on the stock ecu. yes i deleted afm with the mspnp install. yes the st sign fuse is gone and was the first thing i did. as i said before the car ran but i had to keep my foot on the throttle I need the car to idle so i can set timing and break in the motor

90 1.6- mspnp/afm delete/tuner toys rail/walbro pump/adjustable fpr/belfab h-beam rods w/supertech pistons/supertech valves & springs/magnecor wires/full exhaust/godspeed radiator/greddy oil filter relocate/LC1 wbo2/push button start

thanks
josh H

From: DIYAutoTune.com Sales (Jerry) <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]


Yes it should-- if you're running your stock injectors and the engine is anywhere near close to stock, the MSPNP's base map should fire the engine right up and it should actually run fairly good-- really good on a bone stock engine/intake/exhaust setup. If it's not it makes me wonder what's up. Does it fire right off on the stock ECU? Have you deleted the AFM as a part of installing the MSPNP? Did you pull the ST SIGN fuse before ever plugging the MSPNP in? This fuse will case minor damage to the MSPNP unit if it's left in place when the ECU is installed. It's repairable, but it would case a no start condition. If we need to look at it we could, it's very clear if this has happened.

One way or another we'll get you going man-- let us know on the above and we'll figure out what's next!


Thanks!

Jerry Hoffmann
DIYAutoTune.com


[email protected] wrote:
yes i am burning them to the ecu do you have any recommended setting for crank pw and after start enrichment. also shouldnt the base map be good enough to get the car started to set timing


From: DIYAutoTune Sales (Justin) <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]


Keep decreasing the cranking pulse widths then. So long as the injectors are firing, everything should be working. One question though, are you burning the new pulse widths to the ECU when you change them?

Thanks,

Justin Shahan
Technical support
DIYAutoTune.com


BTW - Please 'Reply w/ History' on any responses to help us keep things straight around here


[email protected] wrote:
the car has stock injectors i was using the base map provided for no afm i already did the firmware update and i d/c igniter and all that stuff. I checked req. fuel and redid it and burned into controller i have adjusted the crank pw and ase also which was actually the datalog that i sent earlier. the only mods to the engine inputs/outputs is the afm delete


From: DIYAutoTune Sales (Justin) <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]


It does sound like its getting too much fuel. Have you went through and set the req_fuel and all of that stuff? What size injectors are you using?

It should just attach like any other attachment.

Thanks,

Justin Shahan
Technical support
DIYAutoTune.com


BTW - Please 'Reply w/ History' on any responses to help us keep things straight around here


[email protected] wrote:
i know i have spark the car ran but i had to keep the throttle open, so the problem seems to be no air or too much fuel i tried reducing pw and it still doesnt start, i can hear it firing but not enough to run
when i would try to find the file to attach it wont open but outside my email i can find it but only opens in megalog viewer

-----Original Message-----
From: DIYAutoTune Sales (Justin) <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:38 am
Subject: Re: mspnp


You need to double check that you have spark, and that you have set the engine constants for your engine/injectors. The wet plugs would mean to me that you're squirting way too much fuel.

I saw the picture, nothing looks out of the normal for it.

You'll just take the datalog, and then attach it to the email.

Thanks,

Justin Shahan
Technical support
DIYAutoTune.com


BTW - Please 'Reply w/ History' on any responses to help us keep things straight around here


[email protected] wrote:
yes the plugs were wet when i took them out and black so i know it has fuel and spark I havent datalogged anything yet.

From: DIYAutoTune Sales (Justin) <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]

Hello Josh,

Sorry to hear about the trouble you're having, lets see if we can figure out whats going on.

How do the spark plugs look? Are they wet with fuel?

Do you have any data logs of the starting attempts? If you do, please send them in, as they might help us solve this issue.



Thanks,

Justin Shahan
Technical support
DIYAutoTune.com


BTW - Please 'Reply w/ History' on any responses to help us keep things straight around here


[email protected] wrote:
I have a 90 miata that wont start and run. all sounds normal, has fuel and spark, when i would open the throttle while cranking it would start to start and ran for awhiile once but not without haveing the throttle plate open but the amount it was open didnt affect rpm and died when i let off completely. It is all factory sensors other than lc1 O2 and AFM delete. any help is greatly appreciated

thanks
Josh H.
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Old 01-21-2009, 06:24 PM   #10
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ok so the mspnp works again now, but the car still wont continue to run and the throttle doesnt bring the rpms up like it should and appears to be running rich but i am running the base map w/ no afm
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:41 AM   #11
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Appears to be running rich? Do you have a wideband so you can confirm if it is, in fact, running rich?
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:02 PM   #12
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i have the lc1 wb02
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:16 PM   #13
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i got the car to run and idle but in order for my timing light to read 10deg. while i have the trigger fixed to 10 deg. my trigger angle has to be 24 and ive tried setting trigger angle to 55 and turning the cas but it only gets worse. my cas has to be turned all the way upward for the car to start and when i turn it down the timing gets worse and it dies
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