2011 MX-5 PRHT 6MT: Suggested Turbo Kit? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-16-2013, 12:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell View Post
Sir,
The battery, when moved to the rear, changes the weight distribution of the nose heavy MX5 by 2%.

All the items are provided and the task takes about an hour. I remain surprised that every owner doesn't do same.

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LOL, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my thread, I've heard a lot about you, all good.

Unfortunately this will probably not work for me. I use the car as a daily driver and I'm also a competitive shooter. The trunk as it is will barely hold all the firearms and ammunition I need for a match. When I traveled to the Alabama State Championship two weeks ago, there was zero spare room in the trunk on the first leg, a little more on the return since the ammo was all gone.

I've been doing a lot of research, the BEGi kit looks great, and has a great reputation. The TDR Force2 also looks great, but I can't find much feedback on it or the company. It looks like I may have to settle on SC rather than TC. Since I have no plans to go further with mods, I think the power increase will be sufficient for my needs. I like the fact that the FM supercharger is used by OEMs and that Mazda used it in their project car. It looks like the kit is designed to be a hotside install? If I understand this correctly that means it will run cooler? Is this correct? Any issues with belt replacement or frequent slippage?
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:15 PM   #22
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FWIW, with this car being a daily driver. You will have a lot less points of failure with a supercharger than a turbocharger. Keep that in mind.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:17 PM   #23
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I didn't know that Erat, would you mind elaborating?
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:20 PM   #24
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Well, you don't have oil and coolant lines running to a supercharger. Thus no points for you to drain all your oil and coolant out. You don't have the added heat from a turbo, which can cause damage over time. There hasn't been years and years of R&D on the NC like the NA has had.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:23 PM   #25
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FWIW, I have had issues with getting all my parts from FM, 3 times now. The latest they insisted that they sent me all the parts, until they realized they were wrong, and sent me the part I was missing.

I still love FM, but the point is no company is perfect. Both companies have outrageous shipping (yes I'm spoiled by Amazon, and yes I understand why Amazon can offer free shipping). Both companies are helping the Miata community.

My suggestion, and it sounds like you are already doing this, take everything in to consideration when making your decision. I wouldn't be completely turned off of Begi based solely on having to do a bit of modification or a being a bit delayed on getting your parts. You should plan for that no matter who you order from.

That being said I say you go turbo. Mostly because down the road some time I will probably get an NC and I want the turbo development to be sorted by that time
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:40 PM   #26
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:50 PM   #27
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Just drove an NC for the first time a few weeks ago (brand new 2013 Club PRHT) and loved it. I kept thinking "man, if this thing had 220-250 whp it would be nearly the perfect car." Looks like you're on your way there.

To echo Erat's comments: the supercharger is a simpler modification. No need to modify exhaust components, no need to run new lines or drill oil pan holes (hello, oil return line...), no need to worry about spool-down cooling after an enthusiastic drive, etc.

However... Also no crazy mid-range torque punch. That's a turbo exclusive!

About the battery... What about one of those little batteries? I know they're really expensive, but they're small and light and would either free up space in the engine bay, take up less space if you move it to the trunk, or give you freedom to mount it elsewhere like the photo above.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:58 PM   #28
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Mounting underneath the trunk is a clever solution.

With everything we know about the downsides of supercharging, I cannot in good conscience suggest it. Your fuel economy will diminish in every aspect of driving due to the parasitic load of the drag from turning it. It will always create drag, even when not being used to try to make power. A turbocharged Miata will very often yield better fuel economy than stock, as many here will attest. A turbo will just freewheel and generate a very normal driving experience when not being pushed, and only be there if you need it.

A supercharger is always "on", robbing power, stealing fuel economy from you, and always generating a loud whine which is unnerving on long trips.

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Old 10-16-2013, 03:05 PM   #29
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Steve, I think you're being a bit dramatic. Yes it will hurt fuel economy a bit, but a well-designed supercharger kit will not hurt fuel economy by more than a couple MPG in normal driving.

Secondly, all the videos you've shown are acceleration videos. Turbos make noise under full throttle acceleration too! At cruising, the superchargers aren't so bad. I think the whine sounds cool under accel (as do many others), and under cruising I would bet you'd hardly notice it, especially with the top up in a PRHT.

Finally, his options and budget are both quite limited. The supercharger is the easiest, least-intrusive, and most reliable way to get to his power goals. Would a top-shelf turbo system be better? Torquier, yes, and possibly more efficient, but at what cost?
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:10 PM   #30
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It comes down to goals. The guy clearly wants a bolt in, set it and forget it solution, and has very modest power goals. In this specific instance the SC just might do the trick.

*edit: oh and if he hasn't driven a turbo miata that helps too. Once you do, the SC just doesn't satisfy anymore
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:32 PM   #31
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First, thanks for all the informative and interesting replies! I have a much better understanding of the options I'm looking at.

Erat, thanks, that makes sense. I had a twin turbo RX-7 years ago, and I had a Subaru WRX for several years, but I never tweaked them, just bought them, maintained them, and drove the heck out of them. My understanding of the alterations needed for TC vs SC is very limited, but getting better.

FRT, so you're saying you want them to work out the kinks on other people's cars?

Fooger, where is that thing located, under the trunk? Any issues with it being upside down? Thanks, that does give me some alternatives!!!

Turbo Fan, I'm in agreement, the NC is a very sweet ride, the Grand Touring edition and the premium package make for a very well appointed vehicle. I like the way it pulls, but I definitely want more power. If I remember correctly my RX-7 was at about ~260hp at the crank and weighed just a little more than the MX-5. I like the little battery, as I mentioned to Fooger, that hadn't occurred to me and might be a viable alternative that would allow me to use the BEGi kit.

Six Shooter, thanks for the videos, very cool. I like that sound, reminds me of the sound of the car Mad Max drove in Road Warrior.

18PSI, You are correct, I just want to set it and forget it. At 50 years old with five kids, two jobs, and an expensive and time consuming shooting hobby, I don't have the time I used to have to do things myself. I'm at a point in my life where if I can pay less per hour to have a thing done for me than what I get paid per hour I'm going to fork over the bucks. Especially if it's something I don't like to do, like work on cars. I've never driven a turbo Miata, but I've driven lots of fast cars and motorcycles. I believe an NC Miata pushing in the neighborhood of 250hp will perform pretty close to what my RX-7 did, hopefully without the engine rebuild at 90K miles. That will be fast enough for me.

Thanks again guys. If you have any other information or opinions please keep them coming. I read your posts, then go out and look up things you get me to thinking about. I just researched the SC from FM and it looks like it's very highly regarded.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:49 PM   #32
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The Optima battery pictured is completely sealed and contains a gel instead of liquid. It can be installed in any orientation.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:57 PM   #33
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Oh, and a Grand Touring with Premium package will have the Bilsteins and LSD.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:35 PM   #34
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I'm full of questions today. I've noticed that hp >~250 necessitates replacing some internals (rods, etc.). If I go with <~250 hp, and put in a new clutch and flywheel are there any mods that will improve durability with the increased HP?

I note that Turbofan mentioned a limited budget. Is a kit for approx. $6K and install for approx. $1-1.5K too low?
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:37 PM   #35
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No, that's about right. Anyone wanting more to install it is ripping you off.
And it will hold up just fine with 250hp to the crank, which is somewhere around 225-230 wheel, which is what the FM sc is advertised for.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:03 PM   #36
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FWIW I think the NC motor can handle a fair bit more power stock interals then the older 1.8's.
I know I'd love to slap a turbo on one. Also regarding sound, I used to love the supercharger whine but after hearing the turbo I much prefer it.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:09 PM   #37
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Yeah, no NC is going to grenade on an FM Supercharger due to power. Especially a later one such as yours that has some forged goodies.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
LSD test: From a stop, rev to 5000rpm, drop the clutch, then check how many tire marks you made. >1, you have LSD.
Idk why, but my open diff (i assume its open anyways) does this every time. It has no problem turning into a 2-skidmark-making Mad tyte dorifto machine...
I havent cracked open the diff to look though... and considering that i am running 17psi, and it hasnt broken in 4 years of abuse, it MIGHT be a torsen... but i dont think it is... it has the 8 equally spaced tabs on the stems coming off the pumpkin... and according to every chart ive found, that means it is a 1.6, 6 inch open.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:30 PM   #39
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lol I was kinda joking with that one.

The easiest way would be to do the test I mentioned with 1 wheel on the grass. If you go anywhere, it's a torsen. If you don't, it's open.

2) you definitely don't have a 1.6 torsen diff.

because they didn't make them, the 1.6 diffs are open or viscous-lsd (aka "almost open"). You would 100% know for sure if you have an open diff and you tried to do mad tyte doriftoing, you will get a bit sideways and then just not go anywhere because 1 wheel spins. I can "drift" in the rain (with lift oversteer), but the car will NOT powerslide, if you get on the throttle too much or too early in a corner... well... nothing happens. You just bounce off the rev limiter without actually going anywhere.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:41 PM   #40
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You can drift an open diff mx5 in the wet, but you have to flick it into the slide, and it is very unstable mid drift, and you need to kick the clutch often to get the outside tyre to break traction again.

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