2011 MX-5 PRHT 6MT: Suggested Turbo Kit? - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-18-2013, 06:33 PM   #81
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This is what you want:

Flyin' Miata : NC MX-5 : Superchargers : FM MP62 supercharger - no electronics

and then call Jay at TDR or Mike Mann at motoeast for a tune, both of which I would trust for tuning. I would not trust a tune from dynotronics on my car.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:39 PM   #82
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This is a great description of what I want to do. Turn my car into a Super20 minus the roll cage and the noisy exhaust.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:00 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Because of how retarded and n00bish some of the things he implemented initially in his kit, then hyped them up to be the best thing since sliced bread. I mean we're all here to learn, and try silly things, but when you make complete newb mistakes like someone that doesn't know anything about these cars, then a month later make "revisions" to the kit to fix these utterly idiotic mistakes, and all teh while claim you have the best product on the market, well......that's not gonna fly....... Then there's the half cropped dyno plot he posted up thinking we were all as stupid as the m.netters and would lap up his mediocre-at-best numbers and worship him. Lastly, all the crap he spews at other companies even going as far as publishing some email from some random dude about getting a bad tune elsewhere.

I just think that's extremely shady and pathetic, and I sincerely dislike him and his company. You don't rise to the top by simply putting down the competition, you get to the top by being smart and innovative, humble and honest. And obviously put out a fantastic product for a bargain.
I hear what you're saying and I agree that Jay has made some very newbish mistakes. Which, I suppose would be a lot easier to forgive if he were a bit more humble about it.

However, there is a bit more to the story than you know regarding the 3076 he supposedly used to make that dyno graph. It wasn't actually a complete 3076, rather just the CHRA with completely custom housings to work around the NC's fitment issues. That's a big part of what's wrong with the top end, it's simply running out of air.

I think if you can excuse the hot air (Jay's, not the turbo's), you may see that he really has done a good job. The NC is not a thoroughly developed platform, and Jay released the 2nd kit available for it. There has been a definite learning curve involved for all of us in developing power for this car.

I would say Jay's greatest sin is in declaring "victory" prematurely. Which I would say comes directly from his general lack of experience. All in all, having driven a few of his cars, I'd say you'd be a lot more impressed if you get a chance to drive one. The power is THERE, and the car is smooth, responsive and predictable. Idle is as smooth as stock even with 1000cc injectors. The best endorsement I can make is that knowing what I know (which is a BUNCH), I would buy a kit from him in a heartbeat, albeit to MY specifications.

The short of it, IMHO, is that he deserves kudos for even trying. And truth be told, the kit is a vast improvement over the BEGi kit that started the whole thing. Besides all of that, Jay is a SUPER NICE guy. Bends over backwards to make things right, and treats people as he'd want to be treated. I know I can't say the same for other vendors.
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:56 AM   #84
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MXGeorge, out of curiosity what would be 'your specs' if you were purchasing a NC turbo kit?

I have been kicking around the idea of a NC, but wouldn't be happy with the stock HP available. 10lbs/HP would be the bare minimum weight to power ratio that I would shoot for myself.

Thanks
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:15 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noname4me View Post
MXGeorge, out of curiosity what would be 'your specs' if you were purchasing a NC turbo kit?

I have been kicking around the idea of a NC, but wouldn't be happy with the stock HP available. 10lbs/HP would be the bare minimum weight to power ratio that I would shoot for myself.

Thanks
My specs for what you're after would include the new header style SS manifold, a gtx2863, and the Tial blow off. Add a 3" midpipe, and run it at 10-12psi and you should be in the 8-9 lbs/hp range. Or around 300-325 rwhp, assuming that you keep the stock compression ratio.

For comparison, if you only run 8psi and keep the stock midpipe, you should be around 240-250whp. Still very respectable imo.

The key to longevity with this motor is not to push too much torque too early. Leave the torque peak at around 5k, and peak hp at redline.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:20 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wittyworks View Post
I have two tidbits to add!

First, depending on how quickly you want your power upgrade, you should look at the rotrex threads on miata.net. It has been being discussed for a loooong time, but real pictures and comments are being put out now which means they might get released by the end of the year. There are two potential kits, the corten-miller kit and the kraftwerks kit.

Second, two of the ecutek tuners have absolutely amazing reputations from every single person who has used them. Mike Mann of Moto East and Jay at TDR, in my opinion, have risen above all of the other tuners and provide as worry-free of a tune as you can imagine. Mike is making around 350 hp to the wheels on a begi kit and STOCK BLOCK, and he has been experimenting with lots of new stuff such as RaceRom and E85. Jay had a bit of a rough start with the MT crowd, which was actually partly my doing. He was new to the game and is one of the most enthusiastic salesman I have seen. He had a few issues with the fabrication on his early kits, but I have to give him some serious credit, because he also takes constuctive criticism to heart, and FIXES it like nobody I have ever seen.

I will be using one of these two to tune my custom efr setup when I finally get it rolling, but that won't be for a few months at least. Hopefully RaceRom is out for the NC by then!

Cheers,
Evan
Thanks Evan, I have learned and continue to learn much from this forum.

We are always making changes and improvements to our kits with two goals in mind; performance and reliability.
As matter of fact we will soon be releasing our "Special Force" turbo kit, this kit will replace our Force1.
We have designed a new manifold and down-pipe that I know you will appreciate, this manifold spooled 700 RPM sooner than anything we have seen before.

The turbo is custom designed to be a torque monster, that is why you see the power level off (as most of us know in a torque set up HP is limited by turbine housing)


This set up is hoot to drive 354HP 379 torque on a Mustang Dyno Pump Gas



You may have heard that “pigtails” the car we build shredded the transmission with its 414 Hp and 430 torque.
This was her Dyno on E85
.



So we are also working on a big HP version of this set up to put out 6 to 700 HP but with much lower torque and slower spool.(huge turbine housing)
I got to say that after 10’s of thousands of miles driving this kits we have identified and corrected the weak links. We are sticking with simplicity and top quality materials. Coolant and oil lines are solid and out of sight, and we will also offer a Garret IC upgrade

Here is a tease picture, we even use OEM heat shields.






When your car is ready do call me I will tune it.




Regards jay
Attached Images
File Type: jpg dyn6_zps5c088a10.jpg (78.4 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg dynodone2rot3_zps09404fc1.jpg (41.8 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpeg image1_zps86fe0182.jpeg (121.2 KB, 102 views)

Last edited by blackone; 10-19-2013 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:29 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXGeorge View Post
I hear what you're saying and I agree that Jay has made some very newbish mistakes. Which, I suppose would be a lot easier to forgive if he were a bit more humble about it.

However, there is a bit more to the story than you know regarding the 3076 he supposedly used to make that dyno graph. It wasn't actually a complete 3076, rather just the CHRA with completely custom housings to work around the NC's fitment issues. That's a big part of what's wrong with the top end, it's simply running out of air.

I think if you can excuse the hot air (Jay's, not the turbo's), you may see that he really has done a good job. The NC is not a thoroughly developed platform, and Jay released the 2nd kit available for it. There has been a definite learning curve involved for all of us in developing power for this car.

I would say Jay's greatest sin is in declaring "victory" prematurely. Which I would say comes directly from his general lack of experience. All in all, having driven a few of his cars, I'd say you'd be a lot more impressed if you get a chance to drive one. The power is THERE, and the car is smooth, responsive and predictable. Idle is as smooth as stock even with 1000cc injectors. The best endorsement I can make is that knowing what I know (which is a BUNCH), I would buy a kit from him in a heartbeat, albeit to MY specifications.

The short of it, IMHO, is that he deserves kudos for even trying. And truth be told, the kit is a vast improvement over the BEGi kit that started the whole thing. Besides all of that, Jay is a SUPER NICE guy. Bends over backwards to make things right, and treats people as he'd want to be treated. I know I can't say the same for other vendors.
What are you talking about George???

I am the most humble person on this planet, I dare you to find a more humble person than me, because when it come to humbleness, I'm it baby.

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Old 10-19-2013, 03:41 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
OMG what has happened to this place?

We usually get a bad rap for being harsh to noobs that ask the same dumb questions, but since your questions were about the NC, they haven't been answered yet.

I don't blame you for being nervous about a reflash, even if it was easier for the NA/NB stock ECUs to be reprogrammed I would still prefer a standalone that I can tune myself. But I'm doing this as much for the learning experience as the performance, so our goals are quite different.
The programing of the NC is been concord, we can have the ECU run the car with boost just as if it came from factory with our 3 bar sensor integration.
Even with changes in boost the car will fuel appropriately.

This part about force induction for the NC is the one thing that is flash and forget.

However be careful who you chose. Mike is the only other person who knows how to do this properly. (that I know of)

Last edited by blackone; 10-20-2013 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 10-20-2013, 04:32 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXGeorge View Post

My specs for what you're after would include the new header style SS manifold, a gtx2863, and the Tial blow off. Add a 3" midpipe, and run it at 10-12psi and you should be in the 8-9 lbs/hp range. Or around 300-325 rwhp, assuming that you keep the stock compression ratio.

For comparison, if you only run 8psi and keep the stock midpipe, you should be around 240-250whp. Still very respectable imo.

The key to longevity with this motor is not to push too much torque too early. Leave the torque peak at around 5k, and peak hp at redline.
Makes sense. Thank you!

Too many ideas for new toys, not enough money.... :-(
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