3071r build plan
 

So, in February I will have the cash for a FMII Hydra with the 3071R upgrade and FM 3" exhaust. My goal is a streetable 350 RWHP. Until I build the engine I plan to keep the boost limited to 9psi.

MY thoughts to get to my goal is FM rods, pistons, valve spring kit, and damper. I will raise my RPM to around 8,000 and set the boost to 15-18 psi. Don't plan on the stroker so I will have the cash for the water/meth injection.

Yes I know the trans won't like me but the plan for that is the FM gearset.

So, do you think that power can be reached at that boost and RPM?

That setup is perfect for that power goal... but here's your reality check...
FMIIHydra+3"=$7k
FM Motor Internals+Rebuild= $5k+
FM Gearset= $2800
Total=$15k+
You're going to be in for about $500 for the clutch, Torsens will be sketch, and your powerband will not be what I would call "user friendly" on the street.

FM Full LSx Conversion Kit= $4200
Clutch=$400
Caddy CTS Dif= $1k
LSx+Tranny= $5k
Shipping+Labor for FM to install everything= $5k (I don't know but couldn't be more than that)
Total= $15k+

Have FM roll the fenders while you're there and pick up some 9" wide wheels in your favorite size... now you're talking about 400+whp with the drivetrain to handle it for the same money... plus around 300ftlbs from 2500rpm on up or so... plus NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE TUNE and can run 87octane. If you've got that much money, go V8 and don't look back.

I am in the same boat as sam with this. In my mind it is either you settle for a little less power, in the 265 whp range, or put in a V8. If you are really wanting that much power then it is really your best bet.

Have you ever driven a 265whp miata? It can be had for much cheaper than what you are proposing. Given it is less power. Most people are happy at this level.

If you are hell bent on the turbo set up then go for it and what you have proposed will work great for it. The just thought of that much raw torque just blows my mind in a v8 miata.

The V8 will be much more user friendly if professionally installed, and like sam said, it will never need to be tuned unless you want to just go crazy with it.

Ever driven a 250whp miata?

I just put my car together, and it was only making 10psi on a gt2860rs and I wrote this:

Nope never driven a 250 hp Miata, I have riden in one though. It was sort of fast but nothing like the muscle cars from my teen years.

I have probably done more research on a v-8 swap than anybody.. no joking, I have been collecting pictures and information for about 4 years, I have a huge excel spread sheet compairing turbo, super, v-8, no2 and for a while V-8 was going to be my plan. Dollar for HP it is cheaper but I am not sure it is better.

My reasons for not doing it are. Unless I rebuild said LS1 then the power is roughly the same (LS2-3 dont count). I have been down the fabrication route and know all the hidden issues. I have 235's on it now and dont see anything bigger fitting so 400 lb/ft torque would go up in smoke. There is nothing stelth about a LS1 with dual exhaust. (can you say cop magnet) The boost will act like displacement on demand so if I need the fuel milage I can dial back the boost. I can enjoy 9 psi until the cash comes through for the engine build. It is a matter of preference for me now.

So let me get this straight. You created your cardomain page with a bunch of shit that you want to put on your car, but in reality you haven't even put a turbo on your car? :giggle:

Having that kind of money to dump on the car I'd also go with v8, just so I dont have to worry about blowing anything up and the tranny/diff, but hey man if you are set on a turbo setup, the one you listed is one of the best.....dont forget that while torque on demand will be there, that is a massive turbo and the power will come on late and very violently (unless you really back off the boost)...so it will MOST LIKELY go up in smoke every time you get on it too.
while a v8 has the torque to liquify the tires it is a very flat/smooth curve IMO, and is more manageable than a sudden rush of torque created by a large turbo.
just something to consider..

the novelty of having a v8 miata is still pretty cool, even if its been done quite a lot. the whole mpg with better management is definately a plus tho.

i hope to just see 235rwhp from my car and will be very happy if i see the 250 range. so i wouldnt know what to do with myself if i had 400 haha

as far as fitting something bigger than 235:
http://www.949racing.com/15x9/15x9_6UL_275_NB_5.JPG

275 ftw ! i suppose the biggest street tire is still a 245

If you have that kinda money to blow on a miata, dont. Waste of money.

did you roll/pull? does it rub? I have rolled rear and 205's and cant imagine anything bigger than 235 back there actually not rubbing.

He has a point, now is a good time to be saving your money. OTOH, if I were in your position where it seems you have a bit of money to burn, I would go the LS1 route personally. The fuel economy will still be just fine and it will be a real fun car to drive in all situations. Dont base your decision on fuel economy.

Sounds like you've read the FM catalog and chosen a bunch of bullshit arbitrary numbers. Why are people with less than 10 posts allowed to make threads, again?

:drama:

Ok, to all the smart asses here. I am in the military and dont make a lot of money, but I do know what the Fuck is going on under the hood. Thanks for the welcome here, I was getting bored with M-net, guess that won't be the case here.... Everyone else thanks for being cool to the new guy.

Yes Jay, my car domain site is a dream/plan site. It helps me keep from pissing away money on BS that dosn't get me closer to my goal. :hustler: When I started the page it was nothing but pics of my goals but as I get my own I update it. When I am done it will be a photo diary of the stuff I have done. Nowhere on my page do I claim to have something that I don't. Oh and don't be jealous I'm going to be rolling a 3071R in Feb :giggle:

No, Savington I didn't just get the FM catalog last week. I have watched for years as people lost/wasted money on E-bay, greddy, racing miata... I trust FM and the turbo kits they sell because I have been watching FM provide customer service for years now. I am buying the FM II because I will have the money and it is the best kit offered on the market. I can't afford to do this twice.

18psi, my car is not lowered which gives me some clearance on the fender edges. I have driven the car very hard and havn't hit the fender yet. I get the slightest rubbing on the lower control arm when turning to full lock. I used my sizing from the 245's on FM's car, they had some rubbing issues and had to roll/cut the fenders. Mine are slightly smaller in diameter too. Thanks for that pic that car is sweet with those meats on it.

Sam, As for a waste of money. My Miata is paid for (so that 20K is gone) is still in great shape and for under 15K I can have a pretty fast car. The Vette or 911 would look great in my garage but not for less than 25K (with trade in). No matter the car I drive I'm going to modify it. So, from this day forward it is cheaper to keep her.

Thanks for the input from all you guys, even the negitive input.:noob: Now that I survived the shark tank, back to the engine build.

FM's price spreadsheet on the V8 conversion is pretty realistic. You can probably shave a couple grand off but take a look.

http://flyinmiata.com/V8/costs.php

Frank

fmowry, Their spread sheet is a little weak. I attached mine, it is a little outdated but as you can see I have been kicking this around a while, as Kenne Bell has long been out of the Miata biz. I know the turbo will cost me more but I can hack away at the build a few dollars at a time. The V-8 will require hacking away at the car to save a few bucks. Both will weigh about the same and make the same power. (Without spending more on performance parts for the LS engine) If I was to go through the trouble the LS engine is not the engine the car derserves. Something like the 4.3 from the Maserati or the 4.0 from the new M3 would be the ideal engine for the car, then the AWR wide body to cover the 285 series tires to go along with it. Then it becomes a show car and something not easily left in a Walmart parking lot. So, I chose to stay with the 1.8 and moderate boost. This is my work car I drive it every day and plan to keep driving it for many more years.

why? What makes it this best. We're listening.

You could save $4400 if you had a machine shop charge you realistic prices for the engine work on a miata motor.

It's been said before but it's an important point. Power Band.
I have a 250hp miata and I was recently thinking that if I wanted more power I'd probably end up doing a V8 swap because it just seems to make more sense. I'd trust the reliability of a v8 over a high horsepower miata as well.

Far from it pogue.....

your spread sheet has a $450 radiator and $450 fans. You know that's dumb, right?

stock fans on a godspeed or mishimoto, $160. They're a little hard to find but do-able.

Why would those engines be more ideal for the car? Especially the masaratti? You have entered into a whole different discussion with those two. Neither have been tried and would more than likely cost prohibitive. The LS engine has been tried and has been proven to not upset the balance of the car. So, why does it deserve those other engines more.

Several questions though:
Why, if you go with the LS block, do you need the widebody kit and not with a 350hp setup like you are talking about?
How are you going to take 80 hours to install the LS but only 10 hours to install the compete turbo kit and built engine?
Why do you say you will have to hack up the car to save money? Removing the engine and selling it to someone to recoop some cost is hacking up the car?
You expect to have all of this together and finished by february? And you haven't ordered any of it? February 2010?

Seriously though. You came onto a turbo miata forum and the people are telling you that with the power that you are wanting, you should go with a V8. That should tell you something. You didn't come here saying you were putting in a V8 and we are trying to convince you to turbo. That would be different, and obviously a place strongly biased that way.

If you want advice, then take what people give you. If you want unconditional acceptance of whatever idea comes up, especially one that many feel is much more expensive and less relaible than a readily available alternative, then you sir have come to the wrong place.

I think a 2560R is too big. Lose the attitude.

I'm in the middle of the v8roadsters conversion so i have an idea of what it costs. :jerkit: In fact I know exactly what my parts cost and they're close to FMs aside from labor which I did myself.

You obviously haven't priced ANY used BMW motor before, or mating a trans to it so the shifter actually comes up in the hole in the Miata trans tunnel. And the power potential of an LSX is much more than those motors with off the shelf parts from Jegs or Summit.


How about the size of the BMW or Maserati :bang: motors? You do know that the LSX is one of the most compact motors around in the v8 world, right? There's a reason it's the most popular swap out there. And there's also a reason you see BMW guys swapping LS motors in their cars. They could probably bolt in a new BMW powerplant but it doesn't make financial or power sense.

You should redo your homework on V8 swaps because you receive an "F".

Frank

You're right, the SBC has never done anything notable like winning leMans, lol. Basically you have a stock miata, you've never done any of this shit before, but you're correcting the educated class because you read a catalog you scored in the mail. You also noted that you hold the gold-medal for researching v8 swaps, but you've never done one and you're correcting FM who probably does them monthly. Have fun living your life a 1/4 mile at a time.

Sometimes I like to show off my Enzo swap at Wal-Mart. I showd off my Veyron there for a while, but I broke the welds in the manifold boosting 20g's on each turbo. That's 80G's total, son. Talk to me when you've boosted half of that.

Ha i rememer watching fast and furious for the first time in the theatre and when Ven Diesel was saying he busted the welds on the intake manifold, everyone in the audience was going "Ohhhhhhhhh" right along with the crowd at the race. I just sat there after the 10 minute quater mile thinking "................what?!?......". Afterward all the people there were taking about thier riced out civics they were planning to boost to 20psi. This guy = That Audience.

Just because you know a little doesn't mean you know it all. Do I know it all? Absolutely not. Do I know enough to trust people who know more than me? Absolutely.

Well at least this site is active, I have to wait days to get this many replies on m-net.

Jay, Savington, just poking at you. You got under my skin so I just gave a little back.

I like how it is assumed that because I don't "have" a built car means that I don't know shit about them. I said the spread sheet is out of date. I have played with sections without updating others. Some of the info is for just doing the Voodoo without building the engine. All of the V8 info was from before the three kits are offered now.

Curly, My choice for radiator was from FM which I know is a drop in and would provide plenty of cooling for a V-8. The stock fans would probably pull enough air but I had the price there at one time and haven't deleated it.

fmowry, Yes, for fit and price the LS is a great choice. I am aware of the differences see below. Good luck on your swap.

Harris, The Maserati/BMW engines are beautiful engines to look at, the Lexus DOHC V-8 has been done so making one fit isn't impossible. I never said they were in the same price range as the LS. I just think that if I had a huge pile of cash lying aroung that one of those engines would make for a sweet show car Miata. Those engines love 8000 rpm and sound beautiful. As for the wide body with the LS. I know that eventually that LS wouldn't be stock. I would then complain about traction then it would be down to how to fit bigger tires then how to cover those tires. BTDT

Hustler, I think it is the best for me. I know FM will still be in business the week after I buy the turbo. The kit is the most complete kit I have found out there. The parts used are high quality. The parts fit. "Cheap, Reliable, Fast pick any two" is what the hot rodders I grew up with used to say.

FM just started doing the LS install, they didn't even develop the kit. It is from V8 Roadsters. So, what makes them any more wise than I.

Just a little history. I am 40 and haven't had a hot rod since I came in the army, been in 14 years. Before coming in I was all about tearing into cars swapping parts making shit fit putting engines from one car into ather cars that never had that engine. Most of the cars done ended up so radical that they wern't streetable. I spent a lot of time researching my options while I was paying this one off. I was totaly sold on the LS engine for a while. But now I am not looking forward to hours laying under my car trying to figure out how to get the A/C plummed or what that rattle is inside the bell housing, or how to get the speedo right, or 12 trips to the parts store to find a upper hose that is shaped correctly, or cops following me because the exhaust sounds like a dumptruck. (no pun Hustler) or how the adapt the LS fuel line to the Miata tank..or..or.. I just want a bolt on kit that I can tune to 15-18 psi drive to work and go on road trips. I would gladly pay an extra grand to avoid those headaches.

good to know, just to let you know though, the godspeed and mishimoto radiators are drop in as well, if that sways your opinion.

and it sounds like you think the v8 is not bolt on. have you been to FM's site and seen the new V8 kit they offer? makes it very bolt-on-able.

this thread delivers...... in its own way. so heres a new one, why not get a gt2871?


i kid, i kid. no need to start another lil debate...... unless you just want to :-\


thats one of Emilio's pics of his 15x9 6uls. need to roll and pull fenders on NAs, just roll on NBs. theres also creative negative chamber requirements with 275s on the 15x9 :giggle:

Yes I have and when I ordered my Wilwoods and AFCO from them they sent me their catalog. On the back is a full page discription. Still it has some areas that are not complete. One major thing is the cutting and widening of the trans tunnel. To weld it back you need to remove at least the carpet. It shows the dash removed but maybe that is for the photo. That is definately not bolt in. Exhaust, A/C, fuel lines are a few that I can think of off hand that are not bolt on items also.

I do appreciate all you guys trying to sell me on the V-8. If it wasn't for a few personal details that swing me toward turbo I would be making plans now.

Oh gotcha...the negative camber is probably one of the bigger contributors to those fitting, because I know that even though mine are rolled, there is no way a 275 is fitting in there.

I heard FM has some ocean front property for sale...

Dumptruck is a book written by Clayton Bigsby.


lol
I chose "reliable" and "fast." I specifically went with the company with the least # of broken manifolds. There were also other factors like " guaranteeing fit on a 99 motor in a 91 chassis" at no extra cost. One company emphatically said "yes" and stood behind that statement after I bolted it together...and yes, they're still in business this week. I don't think any "kit" out there is "complete." However, after two extra pieces were made, one is significantly more complete than the other which I forked over the greenbacks to.

I don't give a shit who you fork money over to, but you're bs is annoying and this forum was created a long time ago.

Hey man, we're just honest guys giving you our opinion. The fact that we get all riled up when you dont agree is because everyone here is an asshole:D
But no one will try to sell you jack shit, people are just sharing with you what's proven to work and what isnt

Believe me, after this site you wont ever go back to m.net unless its to laugh at some douchebag making a completely retarded thread.

If you are dead set on getting that turbo, all power to ya: after all thats what this site is all about.

Flier I would rather at least discuss the merits of turbo sizing. I only chose the 3071 because it is the optional one for the FM II and that didn't reach my power goal. Yes my 350HP number is pulled out of my ass but it is based on what would be required to keep up with high dollar performance cars out now.

then i go back to my original question of "have you ever driven a 250whp miata?" I haven't either...well, I've driven a 1.9l at 10psi with a garbage spark map and it was remarkably exciting. I couldn't tell if the clutch was slipping or the tires in 3rd gear up a hill...eventually the white smoke gave it away.

250whp is about 280 at the crank. Now, list cars that advertise 280hp (crank)...how much do they weigh? How are they geared? Exactly. Take a 2100lb, with 225's, LSD, $1k in suspension, great stock brakes and what do you get...$300k car territory on a road course. Its a 13'-long car, things can go to shit quick.

I have to agree...it took me some time to become realistic with miata power numbers as well. Coming from a heavy ass 3200lb subaru with 360whp (which felt more than enough for the street) I thought a good goal for my car would be 300-350whp......then I realized how badly I have forgotten about weight difference. Driving a stock one (till I install my turbo) at what do they put down, 100whp? I realise that tripling this power would be too much. for now my 200whp goal is MORE than enough to get me started and 250 will be my ultimate goal since the car is daily driven.
Its not a pissing contest: you want a car that is enjoyable to drive and not one you are constantly feathering and countersteering to keep straight

All joking aside, I like your horsepower goal. Unfortunately there aren't many people who seem to follow through with a number that high. One way to ease the pain is to look into buying some of this stuff used. I have a similar setup to what you want and I have spent very little on it. I have seen several built motors sell on here for very cheap when compared to what you will pay at FM. I got a FM built motor and a 6 speed transmission for $2000 delivered. The same goes for turbo setups. My GT30R, manifold, full exhaust, oil lines, water lines and the intercooler was found on this forum for dirt cheap as a package when compared to what the original owner payed. The deals are out there if you are patient and willing to jump on them when you see them.

Jay, I think the reason some (not all) don't get to their goal is because they half step at first and then realize it will cost almost as much again to get there. "Buy the FMII realize it runs out of steam at 280-300. Then another grand or so for a new turbo, larger cooler, different exhaust, larger injectors" They blew their wad and settle for what they have.

I don't have much luck with used. You ended up with a built motor, I would end up with a 100K 323 engine. I would rather have the piece of mind that what I get is new and warrantied. I don't mind spending the money on a quality part, I just don't want to waste mony on a part that won't reach my goal.

I get a bonus "Army" in February. That is how I will pay for all this. I have the Wilwoods done, AFCO's are holding on a part from FM, will be here in a week or so. Then the turbo.

Jay, your car set up sounds very close to what I have planned. Would you do anything different? (other than V8) What boost are you running and what power are you making? Did you raise your RPM limit? My plan is to run it at 9psi on the stock bottom until I get back from Afganistan then build the bottom end. That is basicly 125HP jump this year and another next year. The boost may lag a bit this year but the car sees the 7200 prm limit almost daily.

"ive got so much experience with this shit but all my cars never ran"

You must suck at research, then. FM doesn't make "the best kits". That's a totally arbitrary comment, and to be quite frank, you're in the minority with that opinion on this forum. There is at least one other company producing kits that are better engineered than FM's kits, and I'll give you a hint - they produced FM's turbos for over 10 years.

If you insist on going with FM, be ready to pay an extra 5k, and I'm not kidding. After the built motor, drivetrain upgrades, turbo kit, and tuning time, you're looking at damn near $15k. If you had actually done the research you claim you've done, you'd understand that there are cheaper motor builders (maybe if you fellate Hustler he'll tell you who assembled his forged 1.9 liter longblock for under $2500), better kits than FM, and other turbos than just the 3071R.

You seem to be willing to take a little abuse, so you'll probably make it here. Do some more research and you'll find out that I don't say that to a lot of people. Gain some humility and understand that we have more experience than you do, and what we are saying isn't just some forum bullshit.

in for fellatio!!! my built motor cost me a whopping $2100 for everything.

I highly suggest that you're "most reliable and well informed decision" order a bunch of stainless steel lines and make a heat shield prior to failure, because they will fail and will melt shit. My previous experiences with rubber lines and melted shit suggests this recommendation.

I worked at a VW shop a long time ago on the side to get free labor on a trans build, so here's a story about the flagship VW tuner. APR's first gen B5s4 kits had bad ass milled aluminum brackets for everything, hardpipes for everything, t-bolt clamps, and everything was made in house...because it was a $4k kit and the highest quality available. Then, they decided to raise the price $600 and give us rubber pipes, worm gear clamps, rubber water and oil return hoses, and stamped steel. All that rubber shit melted on the track and it blew hoses.

When I spent my money on the turbo, I spent about $1000 more than I had to because I didn't want to put rubber hoses and a nutdriver in my trunk. With that said, I'll continue to buy stuff from FM and mean no disrespect.

Cut out the arbitrary, uninformed opinion bullshit. The uninformed fanboy politics are over, Obama won.

My setup is similar, but my goals are higher, much higher. There's a few things that I would do different and the biggest thing would be using a different ECU or just using a different platform all together (911). I don't drive my car very much so I haven't put a single mile on the current setup and probably won't until it gets nice out again. I keep ripping it apart to make upgrades and I will probably keep doing so until I get it tuned. I do intend to run it up to 25# or so. I will run/tune it up to about 8000 rpm and only if I really need to, definitely will keep it at less than 7000 rpm on the street.

For what you want, I would recommend a few changes. For what FM charges, you can get better from elsewhere. Much better and that goes for everything. I think you are making too much of the warranty, a decent shop will stand behind their work and if they don't then you should be going elsewhere. I guarantee you that it's possible to get that same power for much less money. Making the power is the simple part of the equation. It's the other things that are the hard part. My biggest complaint with any of the catalog setups is this, who wants the same setup that 8000 other miata owners have?

Thanks guys, respect goes out to all of you. But I don't take it up the ass with out some sceaming and holloring. LOL These are the arguments that I was looking for when I started this thread. Pros/Cons in turbo sizing, injector sizing, RPM/boost goals, problem areas at the power level, kit issues.

Savington, You are talking about BEGI, I know what BEGI has available. I have been to his shop outside SA. He has the knowlage, but his stuff works out to about the same price as FM. There are a few differences in the kits but none that is a deal breaker. Tell me why you think BEGI is so much better?

Both cast manifold (FM's new one looks really nice)
3071R is optional (BEGI site 2860rs good for 290hp)
BEGI external wastegate (This is one area that I think may be a problem on the FM)
BEGI braided oil/water lines (FM optional stainless)
FM Hydra plug into the factory harness (Xede ?)
BEGI steel tubing, FM rubber (Rubber is odd thought but no more rattles) Hustler, I got you on the melting, planning the steel oil/water tubing they have now and hope it's not a problem with the intercooler ducting.

Your right 15K is what I expect to spend on this. 6K for the turbo and exhaust, 4k on the suspension brakes (done), 3k on the trans (buy the parts do it myself), 3k on the engine next year. Roughly....As for the engine, I will be building it myself. Local machine work. Order the rods, pistons, valve springs, with oils/belts/and bits. I think I can get it done for under 3k.

Jay, I wish I could afford a 911, but the deram is the turbo, maybe when I retire. I plan to spend this 15k and drive the car for as many years as I can. (Rebuilds included) I like the little car. When I was younger I always wanted "something different" now I just don't want the suprises. When I first went to FM's web site several years ago I was shocked by their prices. Over the years I watched as people tried to get around that cost only to have problems. (I have done this too in the past) To correct those problems the ended spending almost as much and in some cases more than if they would have just dropped to dime at the get go. This was the thinking that had me sold on the V8 for a while, I couldn't wrap my head around spending that kind of money on that little engine.

Also being in the Army I can't have the car down. I need to drop the kit in on a 4 day weekend and then use it daily. I want time to enjoy it before I deploy to Afganistan in 2010.

I applaud your desire to put your motor together at home, but do you have the precision equipment to do it right? I don't mind paying for someone to measure everything and throw out the duds.

Reasons I chose BEGi over the rest:
ability to make a 99 kit for a 1.6 car
heat shielding indcluded
ss/teflon lines for everything around hot metal
less reported manifold faliures (possibly confounding variables in my observation)
metal intercooler piping (no risk of tearing, and metal stuff and couplers are easily replaced after failure)

Add up the cost for FM's "extra" stuff which is not included in the kit but essential, the price are closer, but both kits are pretty good. Hopefully your new, big radiator fits. If my intercooler pipes were silicone, they'd alread have at least one hole in them because my huge radiator is too huge for the standard fitment.

Give up now, seriously.

Yes, I have put together a few engines car and helicopter. I have Ford cert school in my back groung but the cost is what got me in the Army. I am now a helicoper mechanic. I am pretty sure I can get it together with having bearing or cyinder problems.

I don't think I have ever heard of FM's manifold cracking. For that matter BEGI either. I have heard of the tubular ones having problems, which is why I am leaning toward the cast ones.

True, the piping may be an issue, but from the looks of it there appears to be more latitude for custom bends to allow clearance. I dont have a problem with anti-chaff tape. We use it all the time on our 714's. (5700HP ea) No that I think of it, there are several low pressure (>500psi) hoses in our helicopters that are high temp reinforced material, a lot like to ones on FM's kit.

BEGI's kit seems more race car engineering, FM seems to put more effort into it being livable. (You shold have seen Bell's Cobra that was there when I stopped by. The thing looked like it was built only with aluminum and a TIG welder.) I don't really see a whole lot of difference other than that.

I am confused as to why you think the V8 kit would be difficult because it is not bolt on, yet you seem unphased by the prospect of rebuilding your transmission with a quaife gearset. I'd rather do the V8 kit then the transmission.

Hustler isn't doing the Xede, I believe he's using a Megasquirt, have you considered this? Could save you about $1000 if you went with Begi and MS, or even FMII and MS? Looking now its actually $2300 cheaper without electronics, minus the pnp MS (I think they make a mspnp for a '99) and you'd be saving $1500.

http://www.jimwcoleman.com/photoblog...20go%20pee.jpg
I've seen the CB-1 up close and personal, its impressive.

Please tell us "what is less livable" about the BEGi kit.

I have to just join in as another... "if you are spending this much... go v8".

As fun as my car is... and can be... I'd do a v8 if I had half the budget you have.

It'll have just as much down time as a turbokit... since very much closer to bolt in compared to what it used to be. Not to mention downtime for the miata during trans builds (if not on a spare) and motor rebuild (same deal)

Just my .02.

3-400whp v8 trumps 350whp 4cyl. And I love my 4cyls.

this is off the main topic i suppose, but what made you pick the AFCO's over some PCV Ohlins or even some DFV's. not trying to start another debate this time, seriously.........lol. just curious on why that setup is your pick.

nope....:mad:

Savington, Is there something you know that I dont know? The transmission with be later along with the engine build. Installing the turbo kit I would guess 2 days easy; 4 days for basic tuning and checking for loose hardware.

Curly, It is not about the dificulty of it, it is about the unknows. The V8 has many grey areas. Welding the floor, exhaust, which year/model engine, accessory drives, plumbing, wiring, ect.
Rebuilding my engine and transmission, I may increase a clearance here or there based on the manufacturer recomendation but basicly I follow the service manual. When I'm done all the parts I know will fit in the factory location.

Hustler, I say that on appearances only. There possibly isn't much real difference. It just has a more industrial/race cars appearance. Not to mean it has any less quality. Maybe it comes down to trust and comfort with me.

flier, I have been watching their development car for some time now. The videos are impressive. They have made several changes specificly for the Miata chassis. Ohlin may have spent the same amount of time but I haven't seen it. Seeing is believing.

Splitime, I know the down time for the turbo will be a weekend. The V8 several weeks.

Just build your own block... forget about FM.
Forged rods are available from 350dollar , pistons 400.(sets on ebay right now)
Arp head & main bearring studs.
Leave the head alone..
Get a Hydra or a megasquirt ecu. AND SPEND MONEY ON TUNING!
The best turbo option is up to you... FM /BEGi are good options..
Also AVO (australia) is very good (best flow manifold of the above...)

A custom dp/exhaust (3 inch)
And ACT xt clutch + flywheel.

If he wants to do it in a 4 day weekend, which is technically do-able (did you see the article in GRM where FM installed their FMII kit in one of GRM's cars in two days?) he can't really go the DIY route.

oops, double post FTL

FM installed their FMII kit. Operative word being "FM". I'd hope they could do it a little quicker than 2 days. I have two friends who have been around my car a lot (one of them actually mocked up my IC and brackets with instructions via phone from me while I was at school), and we could probably install a BEGi+DIY IC setup, MS, injectors, and have it tuned in a weekend. Someone with no experience under the hood of these cars? You're going to break or forget something and it's not going to go well.

so you're basing your "trust and comfort" on the one that "looks like its more livable"? So why did you spend $2k on suspension for a street car? lol

Savington, I never said I didn't know what I'm doing under the hood. Hell, I had my clutch out and back in in under 3 hours.

Hustler, you got me there. I can't really say. From watching and reading about all the good raves about FM I have a warm fuzzy about them. But your right, nothing solid on that one. Then again I asked for anyone here to give me something to change my mind to BEGI and other than braided lines and choice of engine management there wasn't a whole lot of difference.

You should give Ron Dennis of McLaren a call. :bowdown:

I agree with the V8 being a much better option for your goals. One route means a full engine rebuild, trans rebuild with a $3000 gearset, a turbo kit, and the rest of the bolt on goodies... alot of work and money. the other route is a little cash for a V8 kit from several manufacturers, and find a used LS1 for probably under $4k, and a little fabrication. You build helicopters, surely a little cutting and welding doesnt scare you. The LS1 will be more daily freindly, and probably get better MPG, and will probably cost the same or less than a full build with a turbo... yeah, your logic is perfect... Plus, a kit like the Boss Frog V8 kit doesnt require cutting the trans tunnel, just a little cutting in the engine bay. No dash removal, ect. So you could call it bolt in. Your talking probably $3200-$3800 for the full kit, then another few grand for the LS1, trans and rear end, then custom axles. So I would imagine under $10k easily. Lets see you build a turbo Miata making 350whp+ for that much, and have it get the same fuel economy, and do it with reliability. Not going to happen.

I also agree with the 250whp Miata point. I also havent been in a turbo Miata, but I can fully see how a 250whp Miata built well would be tons of fun.250whp isnt like every other 250whp, alot depends on when you get boost, and where numbers start to drop off. I think i would much rather have a well tuned 2560 making 250whp than I would a 3071 making 350whp, which might not be sqeezing out every little bit of power it can, and is probably spooling much later due to little design flaws or tune. Im tired, cant put it into words well.

Its two differnt schools of thought. Do you want to play with the $300k cars at the road course, or leave your teef at home and live a 1/4-mile at a time. Either way, you're still a queer in a miata.

My favorite track day involved steam rolling a blown shelby at Hallett. "But mah 500hp shelby makes 500hp!!!" Sure it never hooks up and never will, but it makes lots of power!!!oneone What else could you ask for.

Seriously dude. Go for a ride-along in a turbo miata at a racetrack, you'll change your priorities quickly. The more I drove my 94whp car, and the faster I went arround the track, the less power I wanted.
Initially I desired 300whp since I came from 488whp turbo FWD streetrace ------ry
then I decided to buy for a goal of 275whp
then I started doing trackdays and realized that 275whp was absurd
then I shifted to 250wph (the floor of efficiency with the turbo I bought)
today, I almost wish I had kept the 1.6 and shot for 225whp because I finally drove a 154whp car on the track
if the car stays together at 250whp, I'll be fine after learning throttle modulation.

Thats exactly why my goal went from 300, to 275, to 250, to 220, now my starting goal is only about 180. I dont want to shoot too high and realise Im making too much power to be usable and needed on the street. If I want more, the boost can always be cranked up a bit. 200whp doesnt seem like much, but apparently alot of people forget that its a 100% increase in power to a car that is already quick around the track in stock form. double the hp in alot of other cars would be serious fun, just as Im sure it is in the Miata.

Also, just because you have 350whp doesnt mean you can play with $300k cars. You still have to know how to drive to make all of that power usable. If not your just blowing smoke up your ass.