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Old 12-25-2008, 11:42 AM   #1
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Default 3071r build plan

So, in February I will have the cash for a FMII Hydra with the 3071R upgrade and FM 3" exhaust. My goal is a streetable 350 RWHP. Until I build the engine I plan to keep the boost limited to 9psi.

MY thoughts to get to my goal is FM rods, pistons, valve spring kit, and damper. I will raise my RPM to around 8,000 and set the boost to 15-18 psi. Don't plan on the stroker so I will have the cash for the water/meth injection.

Yes I know the trans won't like me but the plan for that is the FM gearset.

So, do you think that power can be reached at that boost and RPM?
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:31 PM   #2
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That setup is perfect for that power goal... but here's your reality check...
FMIIHydra+3"=$7k
FM Motor Internals+Rebuild= $5k+
FM Gearset= $2800
Total=$15k+
You're going to be in for about $500 for the clutch, Torsens will be sketch, and your powerband will not be what I would call "user friendly" on the street.

FM Full LSx Conversion Kit= $4200
Clutch=$400
Caddy CTS Dif= $1k
LSx+Tranny= $5k
Shipping+Labor for FM to install everything= $5k (I don't know but couldn't be more than that)
Total= $15k+

Have FM roll the fenders while you're there and pick up some 9" wide wheels in your favorite size... now you're talking about 400+whp with the drivetrain to handle it for the same money... plus around 300ftlbs from 2500rpm on up or so... plus NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE TUNE and can run 87octane. If you've got that much money, go V8 and don't look back.

Last edited by samnavy; 12-25-2008 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:44 PM   #3
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I am in the same boat as sam with this. In my mind it is either you settle for a little less power, in the 265 whp range, or put in a V8. If you are really wanting that much power then it is really your best bet.

Have you ever driven a 265whp miata? It can be had for much cheaper than what you are proposing. Given it is less power. Most people are happy at this level.

If you are hell bent on the turbo set up then go for it and what you have proposed will work great for it. The just thought of that much raw torque just blows my mind in a v8 miata.

The V8 will be much more user friendly if professionally installed, and like sam said, it will never need to be tuned unless you want to just go crazy with it.
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Old 12-25-2008, 04:29 PM   #4
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Ever driven a 250whp miata?

I just put my car together, and it was only making 10psi on a gt2860rs and I wrote this:
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
so I just took the car out in the austin hills. I was doing a little road tuning so its ready for the dyno (idle is ******* whacked out) and it didn't feel fast today. I pulled out and some dude in a while 3-series (non-m3) got on my ***, so I matted it in 4th and 5th and I just barely pulled on him (shifting at 6000)...I remembered this car to be a rocket ship. The gauges were cool, the spark map is conservative...I can't hear detonation, did I manage to blow up this motor already? So goose it again and I still don't really pull on the 3-series. What gives?

Then...I hear the 3-series blow off and I see the big, shiny intercooler, lol. Nevermind, the miata is running just fine.
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Old 12-25-2008, 06:45 PM   #5
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Nope never driven a 250 hp Miata, I have riden in one though. It was sort of fast but nothing like the muscle cars from my teen years.

I have probably done more research on a v-8 swap than anybody.. no joking, I have been collecting pictures and information for about 4 years, I have a huge excel spread sheet compairing turbo, super, v-8, no2 and for a while V-8 was going to be my plan. Dollar for HP it is cheaper but I am not sure it is better.

My reasons for not doing it are. Unless I rebuild said LS1 then the power is roughly the same (LS2-3 dont count). I have been down the fabrication route and know all the hidden issues. I have 235's on it now and dont see anything bigger fitting so 400 lb/ft torque would go up in smoke. There is nothing stelth about a LS1 with dual exhaust. (can you say cop magnet) The boost will act like displacement on demand so if I need the fuel milage I can dial back the boost. I can enjoy 9 psi until the cash comes through for the engine build. It is a matter of preference for me now.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:07 PM   #6
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So let me get this straight. You created your cardomain page with a bunch of **** that you want to put on your car, but in reality you haven't even put a turbo on your car?
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:16 PM   #7
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Having that kind of money to dump on the car I'd also go with v8, just so I dont have to worry about blowing anything up and the tranny/diff, but hey man if you are set on a turbo setup, the one you listed is one of the best.....dont forget that while torque on demand will be there, that is a massive turbo and the power will come on late and very violently (unless you really back off the boost)...so it will MOST LIKELY go up in smoke every time you get on it too.
while a v8 has the torque to liquify the tires it is a very flat/smooth curve IMO, and is more manageable than a sudden rush of torque created by a large turbo.
just something to consider..
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:22 AM   #8
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the novelty of having a v8 miata is still pretty cool, even if its been done quite a lot. the whole mpg with better management is definately a plus tho.

i hope to just see 235rwhp from my car and will be very happy if i see the 250 range. so i wouldnt know what to do with myself if i had 400 haha

as far as fitting something bigger than 235:


275 ftw ! i suppose the biggest street tire is still a 245
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:01 AM   #9
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If you have that kinda money to blow on a miata, dont. Waste of money.
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
the novelty of having a v8 miata is still pretty cool, even if its been done quite a lot. the whole mpg with better management is definately a plus tho.

i hope to just see 235rwhp from my car and will be very happy if i see the 250 range. so i wouldnt know what to do with myself if i had 400 haha

as far as fitting something bigger than 235:


275 ftw ! i suppose the biggest street tire is still a 245
did you roll/pull? does it rub? I have rolled rear and 205's and cant imagine anything bigger than 235 back there actually not rubbing.
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
If you have that kinda money to blow on a miata, dont. Waste of money.
He has a point, now is a good time to be saving your money. OTOH, if I were in your position where it seems you have a bit of money to burn, I would go the LS1 route personally. The fuel economy will still be just fine and it will be a real fun car to drive in all situations. Dont base your decision on fuel economy.
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:34 AM   #12
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Sounds like you've read the FM catalog and chosen a bunch of bullshit arbitrary numbers. Why are people with less than 10 posts allowed to make threads, again?
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:47 AM   #13
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:15 AM   #14
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Ok, to all the smart asses here. I am in the military and dont make a lot of money, but I do know what the **** is going on under the hood. Thanks for the welcome here, I was getting bored with M-net, guess that won't be the case here.... Everyone else thanks for being cool to the new guy.

Yes Jay, my car domain site is a dream/plan site. It helps me keep from pissing away money on BS that dosn't get me closer to my goal. When I started the page it was nothing but pics of my goals but as I get my own I update it. When I am done it will be a photo diary of the stuff I have done. Nowhere on my page do I claim to have something that I don't. Oh and don't be jealous I'm going to be rolling a 3071R in Feb

No, Savington I didn't just get the FM catalog last week. I have watched for years as people lost/wasted money on E-bay, greddy, racing miata... I trust FM and the turbo kits they sell because I have been watching FM provide customer service for years now. I am buying the FM II because I will have the money and it is the best kit offered on the market. I can't afford to do this twice.

18psi, my car is not lowered which gives me some clearance on the fender edges. I have driven the car very hard and havn't hit the fender yet. I get the slightest rubbing on the lower control arm when turning to full lock. I used my sizing from the 245's on FM's car, they had some rubbing issues and had to roll/cut the fenders. Mine are slightly smaller in diameter too. Thanks for that pic that car is sweet with those meats on it.

Sam, As for a waste of money. My Miata is paid for (so that 20K is gone) is still in great shape and for under 15K I can have a pretty fast car. The Vette or 911 would look great in my garage but not for less than 25K (with trade in). No matter the car I drive I'm going to modify it. So, from this day forward it is cheaper to keep her.

Thanks for the input from all you guys, even the negitive input. Now that I survived the shark tank, back to the engine build.
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:11 AM   #15
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FM's price spreadsheet on the V8 conversion is pretty realistic. You can probably shave a couple grand off but take a look.

http://flyinmiata.com/V8/costs.php

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Old 12-26-2008, 10:45 AM   #16
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fmowry, Their spread sheet is a little weak. I attached mine, it is a little outdated but as you can see I have been kicking this around a while, as Kenne Bell has long been out of the Miata biz. I know the turbo will cost me more but I can hack away at the build a few dollars at a time. The V-8 will require hacking away at the car to save a few bucks. Both will weigh about the same and make the same power. (Without spending more on performance parts for the LS engine) If I was to go through the trouble the LS engine is not the engine the car derserves. Something like the 4.3 from the Maserati or the 4.0 from the new M3 would be the ideal engine for the car, then the AWR wide body to cover the 285 series tires to go along with it. Then it becomes a show car and something not easily left in a Walmart parking lot. So, I chose to stay with the 1.8 and moderate boost. This is my work car I drive it every day and plan to keep driving it for many more years.
Attached Files
File Type: xls HP to $ Ratio.xls (297.5 KB, 21 views)
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Old 12-26-2008, 11:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCPanther View Post
I am buying the FM II because I will have the money and it is the best kit offered on the market. I can't afford to do this twice.
why? What makes it this best. We're listening.

You could save $4400 if you had a machine shop charge you realistic prices for the engine work on a miata motor.
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Old 12-26-2008, 11:55 AM   #18
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It's been said before but it's an important point. Power Band.
I have a 250hp miata and I was recently thinking that if I wanted more power I'd probably end up doing a V8 swap because it just seems to make more sense. I'd trust the reliability of a v8 over a high horsepower miata as well.
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Old 12-26-2008, 11:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCPanther View Post
Oh and don't be jealous I'm going to be rolling a 3071R in Feb
Far from it pogue.....
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Old 12-26-2008, 12:42 PM   #20
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your spread sheet has a $450 radiator and $450 fans. You know that's dumb, right?

stock fans on a godspeed or mishimoto, $160. They're a little hard to find but do-able.
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