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Old 03-01-2008, 04:09 PM   #1
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Default BELL S3 setup - comments & advice please

After spending the last 2 months or so absorbing info on all things Miata turbo related, here's what I'm thinking I need to make me happy.

I'm going with a Bell kit & an MSPNP, no doubt. I don't have fabrication tools, don't know a talented local welder, and I'm not looking to cheap out. I like how Bell is flexible with their options, and their cast manifold & separated downpipe are dead sexy. This is going on a 95 R Package car.

GOALS
Able to run at track days. For me that means at least a 140 mile trip each way with no trailer as backup.
RELIABLE!!!!!
Sanitary engine bay
Nothing hacked
250whp under 12psi
Reasonable spool time
Well managed coolant and oil temps

BASE KIT
BEGI Stage 3 with GT2860RS $3780

DELETIONS
Remove power steering cooler -$119
No boost gauge or mount -$81
No BOV -$125
No coolant rerout -$199
No Air scooper (R package lip & low ride height) -$150
No EGR on exhaust manifold

ADDITIONS / CHANGES
3" flange on downpipe $?
Tial 50mm flange on hotside $?
Tial 50mm BOV*
Intercooler #2 option $50
EGT bung on manifold (just in case) $5

BEGI TOTAL $3161

FUEL / MANAGEMENT / Electronics
MSPNP $725
MS IAT & Boost control $67
RX7 550cc injectors* $100
Sexy Nurse injector rehab* $50
VDO Gauges $100 (est)
Oil Pressure
Oil Temp
Water Temp
Boost/Vac*
Voltage*
Innovate LC1 & XD16*

ELECTRONICS TOTAL $1042

COOLING
QMAX re-rout $300
Good-Win oil cooler & remote $300
Koyo radiator (if needed)

COOLING TOTAL $600

EXHAUST
Currently running JR 2.5" with cat
I have a line on a used 3" from downpipe back $200

* = already have

So that brings me to a total of about $5k, which is fine. If I have to spend a little more, no problem, but I want to stay in this range if possible. I'm not looking to open up the motor, or swap to a 99 head at this time.

The MSPNP & wideband are going in BEFORE the turbo setup, so I can get my feet wet with the software & tuning.

Questions -

I haven't looked much into oil coolers yet, I just happened to see the Good-Win one last night and the price seemed fair. Any suggestions?

Any holes in my thinking or setup here? Have I left anything out?

Thanks for any advice offered.

C

Last edited by chriscar; 03-01-2008 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:14 PM   #2
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Get the 3" flange. Do use the Tial, but on the coldside not hotside. Looks good otherwise. You can save some money not using the XD-16 gauge but they are supposedly very nice. If they're like my AEM gauge then you will like it, I know Ben does.
Get a GS radiator instead of the Koyo. Build your own oil cooler setup instead of buying goodwins setup if you want to save a little.
The rest looks good, gonna be fun.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:20 PM   #3
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^Thanks for that. I'm definitely getting the 3" flange, the question mark is because I don't know how much Bell will charge, but I suspect it's not much at all. I already have the LC1-XD16, so that's not an issue. $300 for the oil cooler / filter relocation seems pretty reasonable as all hoses & fittings are included.

C
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:26 PM   #4
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Chad, I dunno if he wants to dick with the fit/finish issues on the GS radiators. The Koyo is going to bolt right in and be nice.

For hard track use, I would go with the S5 manifold, not the S4 manifold. Corky will probably tell you the same thing.

Sell the voltage gauge, it's useless and if you really need to know, just connect a laptop and the MS tells you.

You WILL need an oil cooler and a big radiator, no mistakes about that. You might want to consider a vented hood as well.

Your clutch needs to be addressed. For track use, I absolutely love my ACT HD with a sprung 6-puck disc.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:35 PM   #5
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Bingo on radiator fitment Sav!

What is it about the S5 manifold that'll make it better for track days? The cast one looks like it would be more sturdy. If I'm giving up a few hp with the cast manifold, no biggy.

The voltage gauge is a personal thing. I've gotten burned in the past, and don't want it to happen again. Plus I'm kind of a gadget freak, so too many gauges is fine by me. I've agonized over placement of all the gauges, and I'm happy with my decision. I'll also probably run some sort of PDA with a dash mount to keep tabs on the Megasquirt. I have a laptop for tuning.

The vented hood is on the way, I'm in on the Autoconexion group buy.

The clutch, ah yes. I hate an overly stiff clutch pedal. On fwd SR20's ACT XD's are like pushing on a brick. My turbo NX is running a Clutchmasters and it's like buttah. I'm going to try and make it down to the dyno day in VA, and get check out the pedal feel on some of the cars.

Thanks for your input.

C
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:48 PM   #6
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I understand the Rad then. The oil cooler kit as well.
I'm pretty sure the S4 manifold is the stainless bottom mount style manifold isn't it? The S5 is the cast with external WG? Either way, you want the cast manifold instead it will take a beating all day without issue.
They charge $30 extra to go 3" on the DP.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:54 PM   #7
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Damnit, my mistake on the Series numbers. I'm looking at the Series 3 (cast manifold), not the Series 4 (tubular manifold).

Hey Cjernigan, can you edit the title of this thread please?

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 03-01-2008, 05:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar View Post
Damnit, my mistake on the Series numbers. I'm looking at the Series 3 (cast manifold), not the Series 4 (tubular manifold).

Hey Cjernigan, can you edit the title of this thread please?

Thanks,
Chris
Sorry, i'm not a Mod of this forum. I'll let someone know.
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Old 03-01-2008, 05:16 PM   #9
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I just recieved my BEGi S3 with Xede. I use my Miata of bracket drag racing at a track that is 98 mile from my home, no trailer. My horse power goal this year is 225-235 rwhp on stock engine, just enough to run 13.00 sec. et. I went with the cast manifold for zero issues ever! BEGI web site said that they have not had a S4 manifold break yet, just my luck to be the one to break it! In the Chicago area cars are smog tested (ODB II) every year and my long road trips made the Xede the way to go for me. Enough about me!

BEGI has a scooper for the R-package spoiler at no extra charge. It can't make you run any hotter. My car is lowered and I have the R spoiler- went with the regular scooper and will cut a slot in spoiler (picture form BEGI site http://www.bellengineering.net/Image...s/P9212275.JPG ).

The power steering cooler only for NB cars (No deduction).

NCrash
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:51 PM   #10
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Must feel good to do everything the right way first.
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:28 PM   #11
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i dunno it were me and tracking the car was my purpose i'd probably run something like a t3/t4 50 trim
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:33 PM   #12
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300$ for an oil cooler kit that doesn't have stainless lines, nor a thermostat.

Otherwise the setup looks good.
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed1point6 View Post
Must feel good to do everything the right way first.
+1. Well thought out and very organized. I wish I had sent you my car Chris.

Really nice job. BTW, I bought a used S5 and love the manifold.
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:47 PM   #14
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Christ, I thought Goodwin would at least do a thermostat. You NEED a thermostat.

I assembled my kit for $240; it's a Mocal sandwich plate w/ built in 180 thermostat, a TruCool bar&plate cooler, and high-temp silicone hose (all from Racer Parts Wholesale). Add in some pushlock fittings from my local pneumatic supply store and a cheap piece of angle bracket from Home Depot for mounting, and there you have it. Some people are all hard for SS lines, and yes, they're nice, but it would have added quite a bit of cost, and my pushlocks are rated for 250psi anyway.

S3 manifold = cast
S4 = tubular
S5 = cast w/ EWG port on the bottom

My ACT HD is perfect. If you think the pedal effort on the HD is too much, you are an enormous punk bitch nancy boy. Most people say the pedal effort on the HD is either like stock, or slightly heavier than stock. I also love the sprung 6-puck disc; it definitely takes some getting used to, but the engagement is so crisp and solid. I think street discs feel mushy now.
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:53 PM   #15
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Having owned both the LC1 and the AEM I would personally put my stamp of approval and recommendation on buying the AEM. I was able to install mine today in 20 minutes from start to finish. Only 3 wires, no calibrations, and no worrying about bad grounds....EVER. Its worth every penny more for complete lack of frustrations.

The rest of your plan looks like the makings of a great car!
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach929
i dunno it were me and tracking the car was my purpose i'd probably run something like a t3/t4 50 trim
Maybe so, I'm just more familiar/comfortable with Garrett's lineup. I think for my goals, the spud will do the trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddroptop
300$ for an oil cooler kit that doesn't have stainless lines, nor a thermostat.
Like I said, the Good-Win was the first one I saw. I'll definitely get one with a thermostat. I need to do some more research. The push-lok hoses don't concern me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa
Well thought out and very organized. I wish I had sent you my car Chris.
Thanks Rafa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington
I assembled my kit for $240
Damn, the one area that I haven't really looked into, and you guys are beating me up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington
My ACT HD is perfect. If you think the pedal effort on the HD is too much, you are an enormous punk bitch nancy boy.
FWD SR20 ACT's are crazy stiff, it's not my imagination. We call them tranny killers. Funny how one manufacturer can make such different a product for various engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004
Having owned both the LC1 and the AEM I would personally put my stamp of approval and recommendation on buying the AEM.
I originally chose the Innovate because of their superior software and logging capabilities. Since I'm going with a MS, that isn't as important to me any longer. If the Innovate gives me a headache, I'll unload it. I know they can be finicky. You can bet I'll get all the grounding done properly, and mount the sensor far enough downstream though, which seems to be the root of most problems.

Thanks for the input everyone, I appreciate the knowledge transfer.

C
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:36 PM   #17
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HD and XT are very different. I can definitely believe an FWD XT being heavy as ****; an RWD HD definitely is NOT like that.
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:34 AM   #18
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I'll probably throw a lightweight flywheel in the mix when I do the clutch. Any recommendations?

C
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:49 AM   #19
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The fit issues with the GS rad are very minor. I've got mine installed with the hollow RB sway and stock fans, fit is pretty good. Take a zip disk and shorten the standoffs for the fans and you'll be golden.
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar View Post
I'll probably throw a lightweight flywheel in the mix when I do the clutch. Any recommendations?

C
Yeah, don't bother. If you do, get the ACT prolite or w/e it's called. It's steel, lighter than stock but heavier than the fidanza.
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