bipes
12-29-2006, 11:51 PM
#1
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bipes
what is the most power that can be made out of the bipes? ie. adding injectors(1.8 liter or supra), 190 lph fuel pump, jackson racing afpr? i have emanage blue, autotune, and map sensor, but it is so much gibberish that i cant even begin to comprehend. if i can make 200rwhp with a bipes, i will sell off the emanage and parts to get a bipes and call it a day. call me stupid, but i just want to finish m miata and get a bike... 200rwhp is my goal and im done with cars...
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12-29-2006, 11:59 PM
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You could make your power goal with a bipes, afpr, and fuel pump.
But you could get a much better tune with the emb. Get the emb going and you'll make power more efficiently.
But you could get a much better tune with the emb. Get the emb going and you'll make power more efficiently.
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12-30-2006, 12:07 AM
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i cant find any help for tuning the emanage here in ga or surrounding areas... but i can get 200rwhp out of the bipes? like i said, call me stupid, but i feel its way easier since i worked with the bipes before... what do you have and what are you running? u said u live by mall of ga... i can commute there easily to get lessons and talk miatas hehe
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12-30-2006, 12:28 AM
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The bipes will do what you want.
The emb will do what you want better. There are enough people here running emb with a greddy kit that you can get a good base map to get you started. I don't have an emb, so I don't have any tuning knowledge. I'd still give it a shot; it doesn't look that tough, once you get past the learning curve.
Get a safe base map to start from and come over. I have excellent roads near me for tweaking on the map, and there's an awesome shop not far with a dynojet.
The emb will do what you want better. There are enough people here running emb with a greddy kit that you can get a good base map to get you started. I don't have an emb, so I don't have any tuning knowledge. I'd still give it a shot; it doesn't look that tough, once you get past the learning curve.
Get a safe base map to start from and come over. I have excellent roads near me for tweaking on the map, and there's an awesome shop not far with a dynojet.
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12-30-2006, 12:44 AM
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wow! sounds like a plan ben! all i need to do now is get the cable, lc-1 and a clutch and ill be there so we can both learn this mess together... id like to see the excellent roads there. any good 1s for drifting? do u have aim or yahoo?
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12-30-2006, 12:56 AM
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The roads around here are excellent, it's still country (for now). I'm near Road Atlanta too.
I'd get going on the emb and lc before the clutch. I don't know your timeline, but I may be well into my own EMU install by then.
I'd get going on the emb and lc before the clutch. I don't know your timeline, but I may be well into my own EMU install by then.
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12-30-2006, 01:07 AM
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The EMB will make it easier to make your goals.
but yeah if you can support the injector to supply enough fuel more than 200rwhp is possible with a bipes...I'm sure I could make more than that with the Bipes.
but yeah if you can support the injector to supply enough fuel more than 200rwhp is possible with a bipes...I'm sure I could make more than that with the Bipes.
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12-31-2006, 05:27 AM
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braineack, i have 1.8 liter and supra injectors and the jackson racing afpr and also the 190lph fuel pump already... i thought long and hard and i want to get the bipes and get rid of my emanage blue, autotune, map sensor and o2 clamp... how many psi would i have to make with the bipes to hit 200rwhp? as much as i want to hook up my miata with the emanage, i'd rather just have the bipes, do the most i can with it, and call it a day. im not trying to be a speed racer king or anything, just ant to hit 200rwhp and thats it hehe... ummm, any recommendations with the bipes and the current parts i have already?
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12-31-2006, 11:02 AM
#10
fonti, Somehow, your writing leads me to believe you have a misconception of what the Bipes does, or at least what it's role is within the system. If I'm wrong, then please forgive the following elaboration (sorry Brain, here I go again):
The Bipes does only one thing. It retards/advances iginition timing... meaning it makes the spark plugs fire sooner or later than the stock ECU is trying to do. THAT'S ALL IT DOES! The benefit of retarding timing a few degrees is that all-other-things-being-equal, it lowers combustion temps (temperature in the cylinder). The drawback is that you sacrifice low end power (in some cases, lots of power). The direct benefit of lowering combustion temps is the potential for pre-ignition (also called detonation or knock) is lowered.
The direct benefit of lowering combustion temps and reducing the potential for knock is that THEN you can push in a lot of really hot compressed air (ie.. turbo or supercharger)... and the car won't knock.
More air + an equal amount of more fuel = more power = more heat = knock.
Knock is what kills engines.
There are other ways to reduce combustion temps. The easiest other way is to decrease the temp of the intake charge. You already have an IC. Water injection has been proven in some cases to eliminate the need to retard timing at all. A small amount of water vapor injected into the airflow just before it enters the manifold will dramatically reduce the air temp. However, there is a limit to water injection. Replacing air molecules with water molecules reduces power... so there's a limit to how much water you want to inject, a balance. A lot of guys use other fluids, methanol being one.
Colder spark plugs... doesn't mean the spark temp itself is lower, but that the spark plug is actually a heat conductor, and pulls heat out of the engine through the body of the plug.
Adding more fuel than necessary (fuel is a liquid) works just like adding water to the intake (atomizing a liquid cools the air around it)... it has a great cooling effect on the intake charge. Lots of guys tune to run just a little rich to keep knock under control at higher RPM's.
Greater cooling effect from the radiator. Cooling the engine block itself assists with preventing knock. Completing the dual-fan mod, upgrading to an Automatic Transmission radiator, and adding a little Water-Wetter will pull more heat from the engine.
Using a higher octane gas. The potential for knock is directly determined by the temperature and speed at which the fuel will detonate. Lower 87octane fuel has a LOWER flashpoint, meaning it will explode at a lower temp. 93octane will go at a higher temp, meaning you can have higher cylinder temps and still be safe from knock with higher octane. There are places you can buy 100octane (or more) and run some crazy ignition advance and be safe from knock.
Those are the big things... but when you ask the question: how many psi would i have to make with the bipes to hit 200rwhp?, that depends on a lot of things. If it's 40*F and 0% humidity out, you might make 200rwhp on 9psi @12* static timing... but if it's 90*F and 80% humidity, you might have to pull 8* from 12*base and bump it up to 12psi and still not get 200rwhp. This is assuming your A/F's are as flat as possible.
With all of that being said, to answer your question, your setup along with a Bipes AND A GOOD TUNE should make 200rwhp at about 11psi or so maybe. Being in Atlanta, a starting Bipes setup would be 12*base in the summer, pulling out 6*total starting 200rpm and an additional degree of timing for every 30*F air temp. During the winter, you could probably bump the base up to 14*, and pull a total of 6*starting at 3000rpms, and an additional degree of timing for every 50*F air temp. Those numbers are just guesses... listen for knock and tune accordingly.
Do not ditch the O2clamp... it makes a big difference during the transition between open and closed loop when you enter boost. I'd run the GreenTops (305's, right) and YOU MUST GET A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE!!! There's no sense in proceeding any further until you can monitor the rate of pressure rise in conjunction with boost.
With your current setup, the biggest limiting factor in the power you can make is the Greddy DP and stock exhaust. 200rwhp would be within easy reach with a bigger DP and upgraded exhaust. I think you're going to have spool problems and underhood temp issues when looking to reach that kind of power through the stock stuff. When you sell the eManage, put the money into a DP and exhaust... you can probably do both for $500 used.
Time to go buy booze for the party tonite.
The Bipes does only one thing. It retards/advances iginition timing... meaning it makes the spark plugs fire sooner or later than the stock ECU is trying to do. THAT'S ALL IT DOES! The benefit of retarding timing a few degrees is that all-other-things-being-equal, it lowers combustion temps (temperature in the cylinder). The drawback is that you sacrifice low end power (in some cases, lots of power). The direct benefit of lowering combustion temps is the potential for pre-ignition (also called detonation or knock) is lowered.
The direct benefit of lowering combustion temps and reducing the potential for knock is that THEN you can push in a lot of really hot compressed air (ie.. turbo or supercharger)... and the car won't knock.
More air + an equal amount of more fuel = more power = more heat = knock.
Knock is what kills engines.
There are other ways to reduce combustion temps. The easiest other way is to decrease the temp of the intake charge. You already have an IC. Water injection has been proven in some cases to eliminate the need to retard timing at all. A small amount of water vapor injected into the airflow just before it enters the manifold will dramatically reduce the air temp. However, there is a limit to water injection. Replacing air molecules with water molecules reduces power... so there's a limit to how much water you want to inject, a balance. A lot of guys use other fluids, methanol being one.
Colder spark plugs... doesn't mean the spark temp itself is lower, but that the spark plug is actually a heat conductor, and pulls heat out of the engine through the body of the plug.
Adding more fuel than necessary (fuel is a liquid) works just like adding water to the intake (atomizing a liquid cools the air around it)... it has a great cooling effect on the intake charge. Lots of guys tune to run just a little rich to keep knock under control at higher RPM's.
Greater cooling effect from the radiator. Cooling the engine block itself assists with preventing knock. Completing the dual-fan mod, upgrading to an Automatic Transmission radiator, and adding a little Water-Wetter will pull more heat from the engine.
Using a higher octane gas. The potential for knock is directly determined by the temperature and speed at which the fuel will detonate. Lower 87octane fuel has a LOWER flashpoint, meaning it will explode at a lower temp. 93octane will go at a higher temp, meaning you can have higher cylinder temps and still be safe from knock with higher octane. There are places you can buy 100octane (or more) and run some crazy ignition advance and be safe from knock.
Those are the big things... but when you ask the question: how many psi would i have to make with the bipes to hit 200rwhp?, that depends on a lot of things. If it's 40*F and 0% humidity out, you might make 200rwhp on 9psi @12* static timing... but if it's 90*F and 80% humidity, you might have to pull 8* from 12*base and bump it up to 12psi and still not get 200rwhp. This is assuming your A/F's are as flat as possible.
With all of that being said, to answer your question, your setup along with a Bipes AND A GOOD TUNE should make 200rwhp at about 11psi or so maybe. Being in Atlanta, a starting Bipes setup would be 12*base in the summer, pulling out 6*total starting 200rpm and an additional degree of timing for every 30*F air temp. During the winter, you could probably bump the base up to 14*, and pull a total of 6*starting at 3000rpms, and an additional degree of timing for every 50*F air temp. Those numbers are just guesses... listen for knock and tune accordingly.
Do not ditch the O2clamp... it makes a big difference during the transition between open and closed loop when you enter boost. I'd run the GreenTops (305's, right) and YOU MUST GET A FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE!!! There's no sense in proceeding any further until you can monitor the rate of pressure rise in conjunction with boost.
With your current setup, the biggest limiting factor in the power you can make is the Greddy DP and stock exhaust. 200rwhp would be within easy reach with a bigger DP and upgraded exhaust. I think you're going to have spool problems and underhood temp issues when looking to reach that kind of power through the stock stuff. When you sell the eManage, put the money into a DP and exhaust... you can probably do both for $500 used.
Time to go buy booze for the party tonite.
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12-31-2006, 02:02 PM
#11
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the bipes has nothing to do with power goals....it's a timing controller...that's it. it helps prevent ping. if you can support to fuel you can run 300rwhp with a bipes.
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12-31-2006, 02:31 PM
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wow thanks for the info! the elaoration wasnt harsh and i repect your opinion and no offense/ harm done... now, how much can i sell my emanage(prewired) with harness, autotune, and map sensor?
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12-31-2006, 03:27 PM
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he pc link for the program? you can get it from here... yeah i was thinking trading my emanage for a bipes and cash. only thing i dont have the support tool(cable,cd)... ben, with my parts-injectors, fuel pump, afpr, i can hit 200wrhp, right? hehe
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01-06-2007, 10:04 PM
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On a somewhat related topic, I have an A'pexi S-AFC sitting around that I got when I bought my other car a few years ago. I've read various (inconsistent) things about what parameters it allows the control of, but I'd really rather hear it from you guys before I move on any sort of install. If I could get some sort of timing control out of this unit, I could direct the Bipes money into the exhaust fund...
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