CX Racing 1.6 Turbo Kit - Worth it?
or 
then you'd have known i was ******* with you.
05-09-2017, 11:39 AM
#22
Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: NorthWest NJ
Posts: 1,821
Total Cats: 141
The big deal with EV14s is not the 90%DC flow match, but the low-DC match, down around 2ms. I prodded Nigel to push his matching process down to 2ms when I first started selling them. You idle around 2ms, so matching them there makes a big difference. 6% at high-duty sucks, yes, but 10-12% deviation at 2ms sucks a lot worse. For the minimal extra money and zero headache, I have no idea why you wouldn't just buy the full FF640 kit.
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05-09-2017, 03:47 PM
#23
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 80
Total Cats: -26
flow matching is what you're paying money for. it's what let's you get better gas mileage, efficiency, consistency. un-matched, the OEM "spec" variation can be as much as 6% to be deemed acceptable. This is per Ford. 6% is a pretty large swing in fuel in my book, and even then OEM's have per-cyl fuel compensations, and most Miata ecu's don't.
folks' definitions of "it works" varies wildly. to pay 300 bux for a matched set of ev14 pnp injectors is pennies
folks' definitions of "it works" varies wildly. to pay 300 bux for a matched set of ev14 pnp injectors is pennies
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05-09-2017, 04:08 PM
#24
guess i shouldn't feel too bad about the ev1 flowmatched 540cc injectors I installed.. at least they are flow matched, and at $80 shipped the price was right. when i blow up my oem engine, i will rebuild for a higher hp goal, with more $$$, but i cannot afford to do it right the first time.
EV1 is utter crap
You should most definitely feel bad about running 540cc crap.
They're not even able to be matched as close as 14's because at a certain point they can't even decrease pulsewidth, because they were made in the dinosaur era.
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05-09-2017, 07:31 PM
#26
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 80
Total Cats: -26
Budgeting and creating a realistic timeline is also important. Damn... do you have any additional resources that support your criticisms? I do understand the technology is old, but from my research in finding comparisons between ev1, ev6, and ev14 i found a lot of qualitative analysis but not much quantitative data. I'm all about data. So i asked the big HP guys and was told ev1 is fine and the difference in HP would be maybe 1-2% if your lucky. So long as you have quality flow matched ev1 injectors. And this wasnt the person I purchased the injectors from lol
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05-09-2017, 08:14 PM
#27
take peak power numbers, and throw it away.
nothing frustrates me more than when people say:
"do I really need xxx ecu and xxx injectors for ONLY 200hp?"
better technology is better at everything, at all times. peak power numbers are irrelevant and anyone bringing that up in a discussion about good injectors or ecu is a mor0n. it's about startup, idle quality, throttle tip in, cruising loads, etc etc etc. you can run a stock 90's car on 90's technology, but when you heavily modify it, you need modern technology to achieve good outcomes, because you're altering numerous things and increasing output. so either you run junk and suffer bad efficiency, or you pay for good stuff and enjoy the benefits.
he's what I'm saying in a nutshell, cause I'm not digging up data I collected in 2008 on my '00 miata when I wasted time on ev1's for all of a week or two:
they're old. they're not designed for efficient low pulsewidths. they can't open and close fast enough to control a stable 14.7AFR smoothly and efficiently. so you either run em fat and throw away efficiency for smoothness, or vice versa. often you can't even go vice versa because they'll cause misfires. the bigger you go, the worse it gets.
Do they work? sure. for most people that's good enough. but that's a far cry from work good/efficient.
nothing frustrates me more than when people say:
"do I really need xxx ecu and xxx injectors for ONLY 200hp?"
better technology is better at everything, at all times. peak power numbers are irrelevant and anyone bringing that up in a discussion about good injectors or ecu is a mor0n. it's about startup, idle quality, throttle tip in, cruising loads, etc etc etc. you can run a stock 90's car on 90's technology, but when you heavily modify it, you need modern technology to achieve good outcomes, because you're altering numerous things and increasing output. so either you run junk and suffer bad efficiency, or you pay for good stuff and enjoy the benefits.
he's what I'm saying in a nutshell, cause I'm not digging up data I collected in 2008 on my '00 miata when I wasted time on ev1's for all of a week or two:
they're old. they're not designed for efficient low pulsewidths. they can't open and close fast enough to control a stable 14.7AFR smoothly and efficiently. so you either run em fat and throw away efficiency for smoothness, or vice versa. often you can't even go vice versa because they'll cause misfires. the bigger you go, the worse it gets.
Do they work? sure. for most people that's good enough. but that's a far cry from work good/efficient.
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05-09-2017, 09:36 PM
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntington, Indiana
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You aren't budgeting.
You are trying to cheap out as much as you can.
This is going to cost you quality and performance in the short term and money in the long term when you eventually do it right or have to sell your non-running pos.
You are trying to cheap out as much as you can.
This is going to cost you quality and performance in the short term and money in the long term when you eventually do it right or have to sell your non-running pos.
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05-10-2017, 10:41 AM
#33
and I, likewise, expected questioning collective wisdom and experience, expectations to dig up and spoon feed data, and moaning about it should the hard work not be provided on a silver platter.
this isn't m.net. we're not gonna go do your research for you just because you don't believe ours
It's 300 vs 150 to go from jank to legit. I've even seen numerous sets in the classifieds for 200
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05-10-2017, 10:49 AM
#34
Hey i'm not about that EV1 life, I have EV14s.
But he clearly said he paid $80, and i've personally run many sets of EV1s that idled just fine at even low 15s AFRs. It's not WRONG, it's just that there's better options if you choose to spend the money, and that's really it. We all drove, modified, and tuned cars for years before EV14s existed.
Again, EV14s are better, but the MT.net witch hunt is a bit blown out of proportion in this case.
But he clearly said he paid $80, and i've personally run many sets of EV1s that idled just fine at even low 15s AFRs. It's not WRONG, it's just that there's better options if you choose to spend the money, and that's really it. We all drove, modified, and tuned cars for years before EV14s existed.
Again, EV14s are better, but the MT.net witch hunt is a bit blown out of proportion in this case.
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05-10-2017, 11:17 AM
#35
It's not a witch hunt. It's a standard. The actual standards will always be lower than the set bar. You let n00bs read in various threads that "EV1 is OK" and suddenly "EV1 is the hotness".
I don't even know why I try anymore. Those that wanna be cheap and use junk will continue to do so, regardless of logic.
I'll just stop caring.
I don't even know why I try anymore. Those that wanna be cheap and use junk will continue to do so, regardless of logic.
I'll just stop caring.
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