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Old 01-31-2007, 07:26 PM   #1
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Default FM's 1.6 Fuel Rail

What's everyone think of it? Seems as if the deal is reasonable as you get all the SS fitings with it. At $199, you even get some bling! Here's a pic link: http://www.flyinmiata.com/Store/images/04-46575.jpg
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:32 PM   #2
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It looks like a quality made piece with SS braided hose & fittings,but the purple color is not doing it for me.
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:45 PM   #3
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Aside from the color, I'd rather pay less and not receive the braided hoses.
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:07 PM   #4
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here in cali...anything that shines under your hood or is colorful will make the cop thats pulling you over question you. That is why im going with all black under my hood. I have just begun going all black so I will show you guys pictures when its done. It looks like a quality piece but I would have to have it painted flat black or semi flat black just to have the cops STFU lol
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:10 PM   #5
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Whoah, the cops look under your hood when they pull you over?

Fuckkk, that sucks.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:01 PM   #6
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Less than $10.....oh the F'n choices
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:28 PM   #7
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I think it's a complete waste of money... one more thing for the check-writing crowd to buy after their ***** extension surgery.

Why do you want to do this mod?

If it's just for looks, then only you can decide if it's too much.

If it's for performance, then I see no advantage. It doesn't appear to be any bigger than stock. My stock fuel hoses have lasted 140k miles, so I see no benefit to the braided ones other than looks. Since they specifically didn't say anything about it flowing better, then you can bet it doesn't. I don't see a single advantage other than looks.. and funny how it's the same color as this :gay:

They're right about the safety aspect of giving even pressure throughout the rail so the #4 doesn't go lean... but I have yet to see actual tests that included pressure measurements throughout the rail at full flow of single vs. dual feed. I don't think anybody has individually measured temps or A/F at each cylinder... so the #4 lean problem may be all in our heads.

I did the dual feed mod and it took about 10 minutes. Find a buddy with a drill press and tap it yourself for $5 in brass and $5 of fuel line from Kragen.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:30 PM   #8
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I thought I recalled them saying it was basically the same design/size as the old Vishnu rail, which was certainly larger than the stock one.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:33 PM   #9
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yet, no one has yet to take any steps to deem weather the DIY route or a larger purple piece will perform better. And at what point do you need a larger fuel rail? and how many people are running +275rwhp on a built 1.6 that are in the market for it because the sotck rail is in adequate of supplying the fuel? just a thought. I dunno.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:40 PM   #10
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In fact someone on m.net just provided some data using EGT at each runner on a header. If I recall the differences were marginal at best, but #4 appeared to be cooler than the rest. Which goes against what people have been saying for a while.

The fm rail looks like a nice piece, and I like the fact that it comes with the braided steel lines. Maybe it isn't the best $200 spent on performance, but is a nice dress up item for the engine bay. If you don't like the color a $5 rattle can of spray paint will fix it up for you.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:41 PM   #11
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was the test done with or without a dual feed rail?
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:44 PM   #12
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Well, as was pointed out in that thread, he was measuring EGTs, not combustion chamber temps.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Well, as was pointed out in that thread, he was measuring EGTs, not combustion chamber temps.
Got any better data points we don't know about? Are EGTs not related to cylinder temps? Why then do people care about running high EGT?
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:07 PM   #14
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EGTs are next to useless for tuning and by extension next to useless for diagnosing anything but gross deficiencies. Way to complex of a problem to go by such incomplete data as an EGT gauge will supply. The lean condition in the Miata may only occur over a fuel pressure range of a few psi and and an RPM spread of a 100 RPM or so, wouldn't even show up on an EGT gauge.
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
In fact someone on m.net just provided some data using EGT at each runner on a header. If I recall the differences were marginal at best, but #4 appeared to be cooler than the rest. Which goes against what people have been saying for a while.

The fm rail looks like a nice piece, and I like the fact that it comes with the braided steel lines. Maybe it isn't the best $200 spent on performance, but is a nice dress up item for the engine bay. If you don't like the color a $5 rattle can of spray paint will fix it up for you.

well that should be the case since the 99+ returnless rail is feed from #4.
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:24 AM   #16
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IIRC it has been shown that turbo cars not right High FP run leaner in 3 and 4
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:25 AM   #17
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not running higher fuel pressure?
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Old 02-01-2007, 08:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braineack View Post
yet, no one has yet to take any steps to deem weather the DIY route or a larger purple piece will perform better. And at what point do you need a larger fuel rail? and how many people are running +275rwhp on a built 1.6 that are in the market for it because the sotck rail is in adequate of supplying the fuel? just a thought. I dunno.
Granted you shouldn't just take people for their word without proof, but Shiv used to recommend his rail for people running over 220rwhp. I've never seen any dyno/data proof to back this up, but he is a pretty respected tuner and he used to make the rail that FM sold so I assume that he didn't just pull that number out of the air. Also, it would have benefitted him (since he used to sell the rail) to quote the need at less power, and at the time most kits were not running those power levels.

That being said, modifying the stock rail for dual feed is cheap insurance. I can't find the thread, but I do remember that someone did flow test a dual feed stock rail, ****'s rail, and the vishnu rail....damn...
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:14 PM   #19
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Granted you need to read thru the thread, but I found some data comparing a dual feed stocker vs. the old vishnu dual feed rail. Basically not that much difference at all. Cost vs. added performance just doesn't seem worth it since at that price you could just modify the stocker and have money left over for something like WI.

CLICK ME FOR LINK TO THREAD
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:24 PM   #20
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What is the ID of the stock rail?
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