Going above 6psi - noob question.
03-18-2009, 02:04 AM
#22
Cpt. Slow
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yeah probably, not much else though? others with more knowledge will chime in.
I've running a band aid setup at 13ish psi. BEGI AFPR, 1.8 injectors (way too small) walbro 190lhp fuel pump, bipes pulling some pretty aggressive timing, o2 clamp, 18x12x3 intercooler, and an eagle eye on the aem uego wideband. As long as it stays below 13.0ish I'm happy.
It gets crappy gas mileage, about 20-22mpg I'd say. At the track I'm burning through 1/2 tank (the lower half granted, which is apparently smaller) in one 30 minute session. That seems pretty extreme, even with a turbo.
I'd much rather go with the MS though, and if I had saved my money and not bought the band aid stuff, I'd probably be only a $100-$200 short of a MS kit or even PNP. That way my engine bay and cockpit would be much less cluttered, I wouldn't have that stupid AFM, and after hours and hours of tuning, it'd be at the very least as good as my current setup, if not way way better.
I've running a band aid setup at 13ish psi. BEGI AFPR, 1.8 injectors (way too small) walbro 190lhp fuel pump, bipes pulling some pretty aggressive timing, o2 clamp, 18x12x3 intercooler, and an eagle eye on the aem uego wideband. As long as it stays below 13.0ish I'm happy.
It gets crappy gas mileage, about 20-22mpg I'd say. At the track I'm burning through 1/2 tank (the lower half granted, which is apparently smaller) in one 30 minute session. That seems pretty extreme, even with a turbo.
I'd much rather go with the MS though, and if I had saved my money and not bought the band aid stuff, I'd probably be only a $100-$200 short of a MS kit or even PNP. That way my engine bay and cockpit would be much less cluttered, I wouldn't have that stupid AFM, and after hours and hours of tuning, it'd be at the very least as good as my current setup, if not way way better.
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03-18-2009, 02:17 AM
#23
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Why a small 12'' ebay intercooler, when you can get a correctly sized ebay intercooler for probably the same. Not sure what you mean by 12'' anyway, 12'' height? Thats probably about right for height.
I say MSPnP, set of used RX7 460's, send them to be cleaned and balanced, then get a cheapo ebay intercooler and make it work. Run the stock pump until it takes a dump, then get the 255.
I say MSPnP, set of used RX7 460's, send them to be cleaned and balanced, then get a cheapo ebay intercooler and make it work. Run the stock pump until it takes a dump, then get the 255.
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03-18-2009, 07:48 AM
#24
I think we've been nice enough so I'm just going to go ahead and say it.
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03-19-2009, 12:39 PM
#26
Curly has the answer here.
Jeff, your S1 kit came intercooled, right?
You're running the BEGi 2025 AFPR, and retarded base timing at 6*?
If so, then you're probably safe to about 7psi (maybe 8psi) on a GT2554r. You'll still be able to get AFR's in the 13's, and providing you're using 93octane, shouldn't have issues with knock. You'll run a slightly lean mid-range and still be pig-rich up top no matter what. I would take it easy on the steep-uphill WOT pulls in 4th though.
The problem with going above 7-8psi, is that you need 3 things in order to maintain a decent fuel curve. BAD fuel curve=no power gain with more boost and nasty holes in your engine block.
OPTION #1:
Keep your 2025, and purchase a Bipes/02clamp/Walbro190lphHP/Toyota310/305/330. The Bipes will let you get your low-end torque back and keep knock under control up top. The pump/injectors will get you the fuel you need up top at the sacrifice fuel economy and idle funkiness (but not too much). The 02clamp will help with the lean midrange when he stock ECU tries to pull fuel that the 2025 is adding.
I ran this exact setup at 14psi for almost 18months. There are 4 (I think) easily replaceable rubber fuel lines (1 at the tank, 2 at the filter, 1 at fender) that will ease your worries about overpressuring. Corky states that there's almost no way to overpressure the injectors. Prior to getting a fuel pressure gauge, I ran 130+psi of fuel pressure for 2 months with no engine issues.
On a GT2554r with the full bandaids listed above, you can make about 200-210whp at 14psi and 100psi of fuel pressure w/305's. Set your base timing to 14* and use the Bipes to pull 7*winter 8*summer. Fiddle with your 02clamp to get a smooth AFR when transitioning into boost... you'll need wideband for that.
The drawback to all this is of course the complexity and price. It's a lot of things you must individually dial in, and it costs as much as a pre-assembled MS, even if you get everything used.
OPTION #2:
Voodoo... if you want a little more control over fuel for a few extra PSI, you can get a Voodoo+Bipes+305's, ditch the 2025, forego the Walbro, and run 14psi for about 200-210whp. It's easy to install, easy to tune, and will get you to 200whp. You still want wideband or some dyno-time.
OPTION #3:
Megasquirt +460's+wideband. This really is the easiest solution... especially if you opt for a PnP. The tuning is simple, and MS is widespread enough that I guarantee there's a guru in your area that will come to your house one afternoon, help you install and tune it for the cost of lunch.
You can also go with any number of other piggybacks or standalones on the market.
One more thing.. CLUTCH!
Jeff, your S1 kit came intercooled, right?
You're running the BEGi 2025 AFPR, and retarded base timing at 6*?
If so, then you're probably safe to about 7psi (maybe 8psi) on a GT2554r. You'll still be able to get AFR's in the 13's, and providing you're using 93octane, shouldn't have issues with knock. You'll run a slightly lean mid-range and still be pig-rich up top no matter what. I would take it easy on the steep-uphill WOT pulls in 4th though.
The problem with going above 7-8psi, is that you need 3 things in order to maintain a decent fuel curve. BAD fuel curve=no power gain with more boost and nasty holes in your engine block.
OPTION #1:
Keep your 2025, and purchase a Bipes/02clamp/Walbro190lphHP/Toyota310/305/330. The Bipes will let you get your low-end torque back and keep knock under control up top. The pump/injectors will get you the fuel you need up top at the sacrifice fuel economy and idle funkiness (but not too much). The 02clamp will help with the lean midrange when he stock ECU tries to pull fuel that the 2025 is adding.
I ran this exact setup at 14psi for almost 18months. There are 4 (I think) easily replaceable rubber fuel lines (1 at the tank, 2 at the filter, 1 at fender) that will ease your worries about overpressuring. Corky states that there's almost no way to overpressure the injectors. Prior to getting a fuel pressure gauge, I ran 130+psi of fuel pressure for 2 months with no engine issues.
On a GT2554r with the full bandaids listed above, you can make about 200-210whp at 14psi and 100psi of fuel pressure w/305's. Set your base timing to 14* and use the Bipes to pull 7*winter 8*summer. Fiddle with your 02clamp to get a smooth AFR when transitioning into boost... you'll need wideband for that.
The drawback to all this is of course the complexity and price. It's a lot of things you must individually dial in, and it costs as much as a pre-assembled MS, even if you get everything used.
OPTION #2:
Voodoo... if you want a little more control over fuel for a few extra PSI, you can get a Voodoo+Bipes+305's, ditch the 2025, forego the Walbro, and run 14psi for about 200-210whp. It's easy to install, easy to tune, and will get you to 200whp. You still want wideband or some dyno-time.
OPTION #3:
Megasquirt +460's+wideband. This really is the easiest solution... especially if you opt for a PnP. The tuning is simple, and MS is widespread enough that I guarantee there's a guru in your area that will come to your house one afternoon, help you install and tune it for the cost of lunch.
You can also go with any number of other piggybacks or standalones on the market.
One more thing.. CLUTCH!
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07-30-2009, 02:29 PM
#27
gonna bump this cause it's not too necro and sam that post is awesome
I've spent this whole week on different forums and going back and forth between the FM website and the Begi website and adding up dollar amounts...
Just today a local guy posted for sale brand new Voodo box, Bipes and some 305s for $400 (Option #2 as listed in your post).
But then, for a few hundred more I can step up to MS. Thing is I have no laptop and little desire to learn to tune a MS (lazy I know).
I just can't get boost off my mind!
/noob rambling
I've spent this whole week on different forums and going back and forth between the FM website and the Begi website and adding up dollar amounts...
Just today a local guy posted for sale brand new Voodo box, Bipes and some 305s for $400 (Option #2 as listed in your post).
But then, for a few hundred more I can step up to MS. Thing is I have no laptop and little desire to learn to tune a MS (lazy I know).
I just can't get boost off my mind!
/noob rambling
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07-30-2009, 02:41 PM
#28
gonna bump this cause it's not too necro and sam that post is awesome
I've spent this whole week on different forums and going back and forth between the FM website and the Begi website and adding up dollar amounts...
Just today a local guy posted for sale brand new Voodo box, Bipes and some 305s for $400 (Option #2 as listed in your post).
But then, for a few hundred more I can step up to MS. Thing is I have no laptop and little desire to learn to tune a MS (lazy I know).
I just can't get boost off my mind!
/noob rambling
I've spent this whole week on different forums and going back and forth between the FM website and the Begi website and adding up dollar amounts...
Just today a local guy posted for sale brand new Voodo box, Bipes and some 305s for $400 (Option #2 as listed in your post).
But then, for a few hundred more I can step up to MS. Thing is I have no laptop and little desire to learn to tune a MS (lazy I know).
I just can't get boost off my mind!
/noob rambling
No offense but if you spend $400 a vodoo box and bipes then you're a retard. You can get an MS built for not much more than $400 and get a used cheap laptop on egay for $50-$100. Tuning the MS is cake after you get the hang of it. If you want boost then do it properly.
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07-30-2009, 02:45 PM
#29
No offense but if you spend $400 a vodoo box and bipes then you're a retard. You can get an MS built for not much more than $400 and get a used cheap laptop on egay for $50-$100. Tuning the MS is cake after you get the hang of it. If you want boost then do it properly.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37618/Seriously, go MS and learn to tune. Total investment increase will be directly proportional to the increased WIN when complete.
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07-30-2009, 08:06 PM
#31
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Ms is the ****. Its so easy to install and tune if you have a wbo2 and half a brain. Read up on it, it automatically ******* tunes itself man.
Ive been the band aid route, put a few thousand miles on it, then slapped a wbo2 on the setup to find i was around 14 afrs in boost. Dont make my mistake. Luckly i was only running 5psi. Listen to us, go ms and wbo2 right away if you want more power. Injectors can wait until you get a base tune down on the stockers.
Ive been the band aid route, put a few thousand miles on it, then slapped a wbo2 on the setup to find i was around 14 afrs in boost. Dont make my mistake. Luckly i was only running 5psi. Listen to us, go ms and wbo2 right away if you want more power. Injectors can wait until you get a base tune down on the stockers.
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07-30-2009, 08:46 PM
#33
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
I cant stress that enough (meh, I guess I could). Do it, but do it right. When every guru of the miata boost tells you to do one thing, consider it haha.
I'm pretty sure we can all tell you multiple things we have all "settled for" in the world of auto tuning, only to have something totally **** up because of it. (Rear end, motor, clutch ... name it. Do it right, or not at all)
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
If you want boost then do it properly.
I cant stress that enough (meh, I guess I could). Do it, but do it right. When every guru of the miata boost tells you to do one thing, consider it haha.
I'm pretty sure we can all tell you multiple things we have all "settled for" in the world of auto tuning, only to have something totally **** up because of it. (Rear end, motor, clutch ... name it. Do it right, or not at all)
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08-29-2009, 08:32 AM
#34
OPTION #3:
Megasquirt +460's+wideband. This really is the easiest solution... especially if you opt for a PnP. The tuning is simple, and MS is widespread enough that I guarantee there's a guru in your area that will come to your house one afternoon, help you install and tune it for the cost of lunch.
One more thing.. CLUTCH!
OP:
I did this (Option #3) and can't be happier. Easy smeasy...and it works with some headroom. Started at 9psi...turned it up to 12psi this week. I'm only limited by turbo now.
I also got a great deal on an ACT clutch...and it's held up to LOTSA abuse.
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08-29-2009, 11:21 AM
#35
That doesn't seem bad. I just glanced at this manual and it looked like a giant ******* wall of text:
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
Braineack how much would it cost me to get one of your MS setups? I'm not entirely sure what options I would need. (I think I would go with the stand alone with a/c?)
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
Braineack how much would it cost me to get one of your MS setups? I'm not entirely sure what options I would need. (I think I would go with the stand alone with a/c?)
Did you really read or research?? theres a sticky in the For Sale section with prices and specs.
EDIT: I didnt realize there was a second page...
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08-29-2009, 01:11 PM
#36
I've searched but haven't found anything definitive but I just wanted to check with you guys.
If I want to go above 6psi on my Begi Series 1 I will need a new fuel pump, injectors, and something like MS (Currently using the rising rate fuel pressure regulator from Begi). That sound about right?
If I want to go above 6psi on my Begi Series 1 I will need a new fuel pump, injectors, and something like MS (Currently using the rising rate fuel pressure regulator from Begi). That sound about right?
Allow me to present a different option for you.
You want more power, but you don't have much money, and you face a substantial learning curve.
So: don't get everything at once.
Start with a good clutch and a big intercooler. That way, no matter what you do, you'll be all set for the future.
Drive around on your current power level for a while, enjoy the clean shifting and cool intake temps, while refreshing your bank account.
Then get a used Megasquirt.
Keep your current power still, while you learn how to tune. It's not THAT hard., again while refreshing your bank account.
After that you'll have a good IC, a good clutch, MS tuning knowledge, and .... congrats it's time to add power. Get big injectors, boost controller, and whatever else you need. You'll have to do some re-tuning but it will be easy 'cause you'll already know how. Your intake temps won't be high and your clutch won't give up.
Then one day you'll post here in response to some newb asking all the same questions you once asked, and you'll say, SEARCH!!!!!
Good luck.
PS - It also helps a LOT to befriend veteran Miata turbo people in your geographic area. Trust me on that!!
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09-03-2009, 02:03 PM
#39
Newb
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: kansas city missouri
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hey ******* if your to stupid to take our advice then go do it your way. Why did you even ask the question if you wont take the advice seriously. Do us all a favor and go detonate that pos and then come back so we can say, "told you so"!
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09-03-2009, 02:27 PM
#40
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