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Old 08-01-2013, 08:05 PM   #1
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Default Is This a Good Upgrade Path?

Hello guys, I'm new to the Miata turbo game. I've come from the wide world of Subarus and DSMs. I've been looking up kits and lurking through the forum for a little while. But still feel free to tell me to search.

Currently, I think I want to upgrade my miata in stages.


UPDATE: 7/2/13 - Reorganized the stages.
Stage 0: Engine Management/WBO2 $500
My Reasoning: Get your feet wet in tuning while you still have a forgivable platform to work on.

Stage 1:
BEGI Shanghai S Kit. $1600
My Reasoning: Comes with the cast manifold and a downpipe. 2 parts that are great pieces to start with. The FMU will suffice for a little while.

Stage 2:
Intercooler/Bypass Valve $700
My Reasoning: The Shanghai S doesn't come with a an intercooler of BPV. They're a good idea to add when you plan on boosting more.

Stage 3:
Injectors $400
My Reasoning: Moar Fuel=Moar Boost. Moar Boost=Moar Smiles.

Stage 4: ~$1000
Upgrade Rods/Rear End/Potentially Transmission
Reasoning: All 3 items are weak points within the Miata when going for bigger power.

Stage 4:
External Wastegate/Bigger Turbo $1000
Reasoning: I like power.


Does this look like a viable upgrade path?

Last edited by Kenny McKee; 08-02-2013 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:30 PM   #2
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Start with stage 3.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:33 PM   #3
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Start with stage 3.
I like that thinking as well. That's a totally viable starting option. Personally, I'd rather have the turbo bits on there before adding the engine management simply because time. I don't want to draw up a tune for the N/A (Which I know you can probably get base maps, but I'd want it done to my tastes) then have to completely scrap it to do a turbo tune later. From what I can see, the BEGI kits are pretty self sustaining.

(I also forgot to add WBO2 to Stage 1)

I'd also like to add a knock sensor in there as well so I can tune it to the best of it's ability.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny McKee View Post
I like that thinking as well. That's a totally viable starting option. Personally, I'd rather have the turbo bits on there before adding the engine management simply because time. I don't want to draw up a tune for the N/A (Which I know you can probably get base maps, but I'd want it done to my tastes) then have to completely scrap it to do a turbo tune later. From what I can see, the BEGI kits are pretty self sustaining.

(I also forgot to add WBO2 to Stage 1)

I'd also like to add a knock sensor in there as well so I can tune it to the best of it's ability.
Your logic may seem to make sense, but that tuning experience you gain while it is N/A will pay big dividends when you have the turbo on there. It will take some time to get your tune right the first go around, but once you know your way around it, it will not be such a scary task. Also, if you make a mistake while it is N/A it is not likely to bite you too hard. If you make a mistake on the turbo, the consequences are much steeper.

Something to think about. Also, it will be cheaper in the long run, because you will not have to worry about the band aid solution initially.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:52 PM   #5
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Your logic may seem to make sense, but that tuning experience you gain while it is N/A will pay big dividends when you have the turbo on there. It will take some time to get your tune right the first go around, but once you know your way around it, it will not be such a scary task. Also, if you make a mistake while it is N/A it is not likely to bite you too hard. If you make a mistake on the turbo, the consequences are much steeper.

Something to think about. Also, it will be cheaper in the long run, because you will not have to worry about the band aid solution initially.
I have a bit of experience tuning cars, and yes I know there is a bigger risk involved with turbos. (I've only tuned turbo cars) But this Miata cost me a whopping $125. If I blow it up, it's just another excuse to do a 1.8 swap. I don't plan on running bleeding edge timing, I'll also be running E85.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:16 PM   #6
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I gave you a negative Props for your last post because it read exactly the same word for word as many new peoples posts who have failed at this before. A lot of the guys here can smell failure at the first post someone makes because we have all seen it time and time again. Your logic may feel sounds but if you will only ditch the bandaides fast, then dont buy them.

It seems you have a decent idea, and if you are comfy tuning and want the begi downpipe and manifold, just buy them used and get a local exhaust shop to slap together a downpipe and crossover pipe.

Im going to link you to a thread you should read if you havnt been down the turbo miata path before and shows exactly the same process with full pics and instruction.

Ignore the bitching on page 1, and just enjoy the pics and instruction.

https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...cs-info-74035/

Dann
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:28 PM   #7
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I gave you a negative Props for your last post because it read exactly the same word for word as many new peoples posts who have failed at this before. A lot of the guys here can smell failure at the first post someone makes because we have all seen it time and time again. Your logic may feel sounds but if you will only ditch the bandaides fast, then dont buy them.

It seems you have a decent idea, and if you are comfy tuning and want the begi downpipe and manifold, just buy them used and get a local exhaust shop to slap together a downpipe and crossover pipe.

Im going to link you to a thread you should read if you havnt been down the turbo miata path before and shows exactly the same process with full pics and instruction.

Ignore the bitching on page 1, and just enjoy the pics and instruction.

https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...cs-info-74035/

Dann

I'm well aware how toxic this community is of the less car incline people. Each 'stage' I listed is about 5 months apart.

My goal for this build is going cheap without 'going cheap' if you catch my drift. Like I said it was a $125 car I have no problem experimenting on it. I've actually already read through that thread and it has plenty of good information. This forum is full of great information. I also want to try to create an easily repeatable build for poor college kids like myself, so a simple cost effective approach that can be taken on in bite size chunks without putting te car out for several months while you wait to get parts is the optimal plan.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:36 PM   #8
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You said you've tuned turbo cars before.
Then you said you'd have to scrap the n/a tune entirely for the turbo tune.

You just proved to use by your own self that you don't know what the heck you're talking about. At all.

Stop posting and start reading.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:39 PM   #9
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Thats actually a good point that i overlooked.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny McKee View Post
I also want to try to create an easily repeatable build for poor college kids like myself, so a simple cost effective approach that can be taken on in bite size chunks without putting te car out for several months while you wait to get parts is the optimal plan.
MS first.

Any excuse you have not to start with a MS is invalid. Seriously.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:58 PM   #11
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You said you've tuned turbo cars before.
Then you said you'd have to scrap the n/a tune entirely for the turbo tune.

You just proved to use by your own self that you don't know what the heck you're talking about. At all.

Stop posting and start reading.
I also said I'd be running e85 and I also plan on running speed density. Sure I could use the timing tables from my NA tune, but to me, e85 is enough to warrant an entirely reworked timing. I also plan on doing pump/injectors at the same time as the Standalone, so I'd have to rescale the injectors and latencies of course.

I'd say the combination of all the items at the same time would be enough to warrant 'scrapping' the NA tune.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kenny McKee View Post
I also said I'd be running e85 and I also plan on running speed density. Sure I could use the timing tables from my NA tune, but to me, e85 is enough to warrant an entirely reworked timing. I also plan on doing pump/injectors at the same time as the Standalone, so I'd have to rescale the injectors and latencies of course.

I'd say the combination of all the items at the same time would be enough to warrant 'scrapping' the NA tune.
That's so silly you sound like you know next to nothing about tuning anything.

Unless by "tuning experience" you mean loading e-maps onto an already boosted car and having some actual tuner do the work for you.

Here's a thought: install pump, injectors, ms, and wbo2 together, tune the car, then boost it.......too hard to grasp that concept huh?

You know why we keep pushing this so bad? Because like 50% of the n00bs here that think they're pro tuners bolt up a whole setup, open up their laptop, then promptly go back on here and unload like 100000 stupid questions on us with titles like "OMG HALP!! MAI CAR DUNT WERK, URGENT!!"

PS: in fact, I'm actually doing exactly what I'm talking about right now: car is n/a at the moment running speed density via ms3x, ID1000 injectors, dw200 pump, and running exclusively on e85.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:03 PM   #13
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I'll also now probably accompany the begi S with engine management like most have suggested up to this point.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:09 PM   #14
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Ok, but do the ******* management FIRST.

Dann
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:15 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
That's so silly you sound like you know next to nothing about tuning anything.

Unless by "tuning experience" you mean loading e-maps onto an already boosted car and having some actual tuner do the work for you.

Here's a thought: install pump, injectors, ms, and wbo2 together, tune the car, then boost it.......too hard to grasp that concept huh?

You know why we keep pushing this so bad? Because like 50% of the n00bs here that think they're pro tuners bolt up a whole setup, open up their laptop, then promptly go back on here and unload like 100000 stupid questions on us with titles like "OMG HALP!! MAI CAR DUNT WERK, URGENT!!"

PS: in fact, I'm actually doing exactly what I'm talking about right now: car is n/a at the moment running speed density via ms3x, ID1000 injectors, dw200 pump, and running exclusively on e85.

Im glad that you make assumptions and I completely understand where you're coming from. But I can assure you I'm not one of those types of people.

I've tuned on romraider, DSMLink and I'm starting to dip into COBB Accessport.

Moving on. What you're saying is the optimal plan. It's a matter of preference which you'd like to start with. Supporting mods are a great place to start, I agree entirely.

I just don't have a plan on how big a turbo I'm wanting to run quite yet so I haven't planned out entirely what I want I was just picking some brains.

So please, continue to insult my intelligence. I appreciate (lack of) information you gave me regarding the topic at hand.

Meanwhile, I thank those who have suggested the Megasquirt.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:22 PM   #16
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I apologize if I sound a little whiny. I fully expected some resistance and since I for have any sort of seniority on this forum yet, I know I'm going to be looked at as an idiot until proved otherwise. I'm open to any suggestions. But I would prefer it if they were delivered without the sting. I don't expect to run 550hp for a $1000 eBay kit on a stock block.

I was under the assumption the BEGI FMU was plenty to hold the car while I build up more funds to pay for engine management. In an ideal world, I'd be able to buy it all in one go, but I'm sure many could sympathize in the 'not having money' department.

Currently, I'm working on my STi and getting it to about 450WHP. My miata project is still in the plannin stages and I'm just dipping into the community before I dive head first into actually working on it.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:26 PM   #17
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When you install a megasquirt and tune NA, you wont be scrapping the tune after you go boost.. you'll be adding on to it. The 0-100kpa is still valid EVEN with a turbo. That said the cheapest way to do it is by installing the standalone, injectors, and wideband first, THEN installing the turbo vs wasting money on failaids that will get tossed in the dumpster. Hell you dont even need to dyno tune the bitch. Do a good na tune with a good afr table and leave it like that.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:28 PM   #18
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Currently I just waved goodbye to a miata thats looking "to about 450WHP". So take it from me as fact.

Buy the megasquirt and tune the n/a portion of the map first, there is 10hp to play with.

Then buy whatever you need to put a basic turbo setup on it like the shangai without the bandaides, learn the new management quirks while its still safe to do so, and dont buy parts twice.

Dann
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:34 PM   #19
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Perfect. I'll definitely be doing engine management first. Many thanks. So stage 3 turns to stage 1. Any other suggestions?
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:36 PM   #20
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The stock clutch will hold ~200whp. Put that in there too.
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