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Old 07-23-2008, 12:05 PM   #21
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Paul, you mean Jeremy? The hydra guy?

Oh and polished downpipe has a lower emissivity than flat black downpipe. it will radiate less heat. satisfied?
Oops, Yes, Jeremy.

Yes, very satisfied. Calling the local polishers now. I have heard huge gains can be had by keeping that exhaust temp up 1/4 a degree. I can't wait to see how fast my **** spools now.
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:14 PM   #22
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Paul is so 1337
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:14 PM   #23
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Assuming you have adequate head shielding, wouldn't you want to get the heat out of a downpipe instead of keeping it inside? Lower temp should mean lower (back) pressure.

I didn't go to class the day they went over radiation, but I think the difference between a flat black DP and Polished DP is like nothing. Same goes for intercoolers. end hijack.
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:33 PM   #24
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I have no axe to grind at all with FM. I have no bad experiences with them whatsoever. I asked legitimate questions. You said it didn't run out of steam out to redline yet it stops increasing power at 6000rpm. From what I read Jerry at FM is the man at tuning so I'm a lil shocked they didn't have him tune it. I'm sure Bill is better than me at tuning, after all it's been a long time since he started doing it here in Jersey.

Begi's downpipe is also 2 piece and I hate that.

PS. my car was tuned in less time than it took to drive from my home in Point Pleasant, NJ to the dyno in Delaware. That's on the street, while I was driving, by myself.
Fair enough. I've emailed Jeremy a couple of times, and yes, he's the man to talk to about Hydra tuning. We'll be working with him as the car progresses toward our 300whp goal.

There's a difference in my mind between running out of steam and making the same power levels. If you look at the graph (good idea to photograph it, I hope it's legible) it certainly seems to be trending upward right to the point where we let of the gas. Torque will naturally go down as you approach redline and cross the 5250 rpm barrier, but that's a mathematical reality. (red lines are stock numbers, blue lines are post-turbo.)

IMG_6146.jpg
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:49 PM   #25
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I'd personally like to see less than a 50rwtq drop between 5-7K.


is it good now, yes. could it be better, yes! what exhaust was utilized?
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:58 PM   #26
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Better is on the agenda, shortly after some suspension work. The engine is much more capable than the suspension at the moment.

The exhaust is an FM Turbo single. Very quiet.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:07 PM   #27
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Better is on the agenda, shortly after some suspension work. The engine is much more capable than the suspension at the moment.

The exhaust is an FM Turbo single. Very quiet.
too small. Probably sounds like a hair dryer.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:10 PM   #28
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Oops, Yes, Jeremy.

Yes, very satisfied. Calling the local polishers now. I have heard huge gains can be had by keeping that exhaust temp up 1/4 a degree. I can't wait to see how fast my **** spools now.
you dont use any shielding in your engine bay? has your brake fluid reservoir melted?

or more importantly, would you buy something new if it looked like it had sat in someone's back yard for a year?


so sarcastic and grumpy....
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:21 PM   #29
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Paul wasn't held enough as a baby.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:25 PM   #30
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GRM Tom,

Welcome to internet heaven and hell. Plenty of FM bashers around here. Plenty of FM supporters. Plenty of people willing to insult anyone and everyone. Plenty of people who really want to help. In other words it's a fairly wide open internet forum. Mods don't step in to keep feelings from getting hurt here.

For a 1 day build and tune those are nice numbers. Well done. Of course there is going to be plenty of work to do after. This wasn't meant to be perfection in a day, just a reasonable build. That's what you accomplished.

200+ hp in our little miata's is a ton of fun isn't it! Every guy I see in a miata I want to stop and tell him to go FI.

Plenty of love here for your mag! Good to have you and your other guy coming in and participating here.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:45 PM   #31
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GRM Tom,

Welcome to internet heaven and hell. Plenty of FM bashers around here. Plenty of FM supporters. Plenty of people willing to insult anyone and everyone. Plenty of people who really want to help. In other words it's a fairly wide open internet forum. Mods don't step in to keep feelings from getting hurt here.

For a 1 day build and tune those are nice numbers. Well done. Of course there is going to be plenty of work to do after. This wasn't meant to be perfection in a day, just a reasonable build. That's what you accomplished.

200+ hp in our little miata's is a ton of fun isn't it! Every guy I see in a miata I want to stop and tell him to go FI.

Plenty of love here for your mag! Good to have you and your other guy coming in and participating here.
How long have you had the car now, and you're still giddy? Its going to be tough for me to throw down a 250-300whp dyno pull, then get on a plane and leave for 6 weeks.

...maybe I can drive the miata from dallas to chicago so I don't have to go through the withdrawal.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:04 PM   #32
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Some technical comments about the downpipe.

The upper cast section is used because it's basically indestructible and it allows us to do some flow management. That's good.

The lower section is two pieces for a few reasons: it allows us to swap out the bottom part for different applications (ie, a 1.6 car with a 1.8 cat to avoid the little bitty 1.6 flange) and it gives us adjustability to mate up to just about any exhaust. Not everyone uses exhaust components that are identical, and we've found over the years that having the ability to adjust our parts makes for a high success rate on installs. The two-piece lower section with a slip joint is more reliable, lighter, offers more ground clearance and is less expensive than a flex joint. The fact that it's easier to ship is a bonus.

As for the polishing, well, that's just something we do. All of our exhausts are polished as well. Customers rarely complain about it. And the downpipe, like our exhausts, is made in California by Thermal R&D and carries a lifetime warranty. Is that so wrong?

Jeremy did the initial tune on the Hydra, Bill did the fine-tuning. They're both very competent tuners, and we ended up with a car that we were happy to hand off to a journalist for a 7 hour drive home Jeremy stayed back at the shop while Bill and I did the install because we needed someone to help our customers, and I'm a bit more of a wrencher than he is.

As for the install conditions, Tom did neglect to mention that I used a big sheet of bubble wrap to lie on when I was working under the car. I think it was used to pack part of the turbo kit. What can I say, I'm a softie

Tom also didn't mention that you can get a free copy of the magazine if you want it. We're going to send a copy to all of our customers, but you can request a copy by going to http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/try/fm256/ . If you put in the request by August 15th, you'll get the issue with the turbo install.

Last edited by [email protected]; 07-23-2008 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:08 PM   #33
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Would FM do a trade for a BEGI DP (SS divorced)? I like the design of the FM part better, but you guys didn't have it in stock when I wanted to buy :(
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:43 PM   #34
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Jeremy did the initial tune on the Hydra, Bill did the fine-tuning. They're both very competent tuners, and we ended up with a car that we were happy to hand off to a journalist for a 7 hour drive home
What are you saying, journalists can't be trusted? Screw up one timing belt installation and I'm branded for life...
At least I got the Berzerkeley running over the weekend.

For what it's worth, the Miata hasn't given me a spot of trouble since the install, so it must be idiot-proof.
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:41 PM   #35
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Hustler,

Yes, giddy is a good word. Damn, I'm lovin the power. Every time I get in the car it makes me a little happier inside. What's that? I think it's roses I smell...

From the sound of it, GRM Tom is feelin the love of the high powered Miata too. It's the 1st truly fun car I've owned in quite a while.
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:52 PM   #36
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You know Paul always seems calmer in person.
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:11 PM   #37
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That's the trouble with internet forums. Without the face to face courtesy is not the priority it is in the real world!
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:19 PM   #38
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You should have seen Tom during the install. He was giggling like a little girl.
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:38 PM   #39
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Hustler,

Yes, giddy is a good word. Damn, I'm lovin the power. Every time I get in the car it makes me a little happier inside. What's that? I think it's roses I smell...

From the sound of it, GRM Tom is feelin the love of the high powered Miata too. It's the 1st truly fun car I've owned in quite a while.
+1
My turbo miata is more fun than my dads corvette. (It's an 85 )
I have yet to drive a car that is more fun though.
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:53 PM   #40
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Yeah, I imagine Tom's happy and in true GRM form. Take one of their favorite cars, the Miata, and make it competetive with nearly anything else at the track. I've got about 10K into my 94 with the turbo, suspension, wheels, tires, etc. I figure I have a car that should be able to hang with just about anything at HPDE days. Elise? Vette? M3? Sure there are some really big buck cars should pull away but 80% of the typical HPDE field will have trouble with me.

Driver skill will certainly an issue but the car isn't. That's a lot of fun for 10k.

Can anyone say Time Attack!
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