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Old 02-20-2011, 10:29 PM   #41
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Yeah, I'm over it. Engine is coming out. Means no Miata for me until probably sometime in May. Looks like the Speed 3 is going to the Mitty with us instead.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:52 AM   #42
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I don't get the aversion to dropping the subframe to get to the pan. I've pulled/swapped a motor and have pulled the subframe. To me the latter is the way to go. Remove the lower shock bolts, calipers, unbolt the steering rack, then it's 8 bolts and you're staring at the pan.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:57 AM   #43
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I don't get the aversion to dropping the subframe to get to the pan. I've pulled/swapped a motor and have pulled the subframe. To me the latter is the way to go. Remove the lower shock bolts, calipers, unbolt the steering rack, then it's 8 bolts and you're staring at the pan.
The aversion is not at getting to the pan as much as doing the work needed in that position to get a good seal.

You have two metal pieces, two rubber pieces and a whole lot of RTV to get just right. This after cleaning the entire area to get a good RTV seal. It is so much better to do it with the engine upside down at waist height.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:58 AM   #44
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I don't get the aversion to dropping the subframe to get to the pan. I've pulled/swapped a motor and have pulled the subframe. To me the latter is the way to go. Remove the lower shock bolts, calipers, unbolt the steering rack, then it's 8 bolts and you're staring at the pan.
I presently have no shocks on the car, the rack is hanging, and I have one caliper off. My concerns are:

Working space - It's probably only 18-20" off the ground and I can't get it higher.

Oil dripping in my face while I'm trying to work on it.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:20 AM   #45
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I don't get the aversion to dropping the subframe to get to the pan. I've pulled/swapped a motor and have pulled the subframe. To me the latter is the way to go. Remove the lower shock bolts, calipers, unbolt the steering rack, then it's 8 bolts and you're staring at the pan.
That's how I did my swap. You can use a jack stand on the transmission to hold the engine up.

Un bolt the engine mounts, subframe bolts and shock tower bolts. Don forget to take the brake calipers off and hang them somewhere.

Then drop the subframe and with the car on 4 jack stands, and two jack stands supporting the transmission/engine, unbolt the pan and fix you mistake.

easiest way to do it since you don't have to undo any fuel or wires.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:33 AM   #46
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I've had a hard time making the front of the oil pan seal after 5 times on an engine stand, I have no idea how I'd get it to seal upside down.

And who here has 6 jack stands?
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:13 AM   #47
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I've had a hard time making the front of the oil pan seal after 5 times on an engine stand, I have no idea how I'd get it to seal upside down.

And who here has 6 jack stands?
I did this (drop the subframe) when I put in my FM2, 8 years ago. Drilled the hole too high, couldn't get the fitting or tap in because the AC bracket was in the way, doh! Used an engine hoist to support the motor, four jack stands on the car, and the jack to lower the subframe.

If I had to do it over again I think I'd pull the motor, though. It might take a bit longer, but it'll save time and effort on the rest of the turbo install (especially if you're going to do a coolant reroute).

If you do wind up taking the oil pan off, then take the opportunity to install the drain fitting farther back, between the accessories and the motor mount. You can't drill this with it in the car (subframe is in the way), but it gives a much straighter shot for the oil line. You will need a 45-degree NPT fitting, though. Like this:



--Ian
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:34 PM   #48
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......

And who here has 6 jack stands?
Oh, I gots 8 flippin' jack stands. I'm sure Hustler has a hooker somewhere that could hold up a tranny for you for a bit if you don't have enough.
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:17 PM   #49
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........
If I had to do it over again I think I'd pull the motor, though. It might take a bit longer, but it'll save time and effort on the rest of the turbo install (especially if you're going to do a coolant reroute).

If you do wind up taking the oil pan off, then take the opportunity to install the drain fitting farther back, between the accessories and the motor mount. You can't drill this with it in the car (subframe is in the way), but it gives a much straighter shot for the oil line. You will need a 45-degree NPT fitting, though.

--Ian
So many good points! A couple things specific to my situation -both good and bad:

Good
-Because of all the work I'm doing at once, I have the engine nearly ready to come out anyhow. I should just be able to disconnect the PPF, speedo cable, transmission wiring, grounds and a couple electrical connectors; unbolt the engine mounts, and go.

Bad
-I already installed the coolant reroute, clutch, injectors, rear main seal, and just put the transmission back in!
-Already have a hole in the oil pan. I'd like to move the drain back but doesn't seem crucial enough to warrant buying a new pan. This and I already own the FM hard drain line.

As I've said before. The biggest thing I've learned from this is that the easiest way to install a new turbo system is to pull the engine....assuming a clutch is part of the deal.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:51 AM   #50
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-Already have a hole in the oil pan. I'd like to move the drain back but doesn't seem crucial enough to warrant buying a new pan. This and I already own the FM hard drain line.
You don't have to buy a new pan, you can either have it welded or screw in a $0.75 NPT plug from the hardware store (that's what I did).

I wouldn't take the motor out JUST to put the hole further back, but if you do have it out for some reason then it's a better way to route than the line.

--Ian
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:35 PM   #51
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When the pan is off you can get hall the metal shavings out of it as well. Your experience is why you should always pull the pan, which for most, means you should always pull the engine. But that topic has been beat to death.

Now you know you have a problem so there is no reason not to pull the pan.
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:51 PM   #52
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Bah - It would have been fine if I had paid as much attention tapping as I did drilling. I agree that pulling the engine is easier if you are doing a clutch, too. Otherwise, careful, well-greased tools yield fine results.

I'll take a pic when I'm in there to show how much metal remained. I didn't do any flushing, since I fubared it anyhow. I bet it isn't all that bad.
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:26 PM   #53
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Bah - It would have been fine if I had paid as much attention tapping as I did drilling. I agree that pulling the engine is easier if you are doing a clutch, too. Otherwise, careful, well-greased tools yield fine results.

I'll take a pic when I'm in there to show how much metal remained. I didn't do any flushing, since I fubared it anyhow. I bet it isn't all that bad.
In for pics once the pan is off
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:10 PM   #54
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I was able to pull the pan while the engine was still in place. Just support engine by the trans with a jack, disconnect steering shaft from rack, remove both mounts, unbolt upper shock mounts and lower cradle until you can sneak it out.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:42 PM   #55
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In for pics once the pan is off
Well, I got the pan off. It was shockingly dirty in there though and the shavings that were there just looked like little clumps covered in dark oil. They were insufficient in number for me to worry about if I ever did this on another car. I never flushed the pan or anything and there just wasn't much there. What was there would not have made it through the screen.

I've changed the oil every 5k with Penn Platinum, and the previous owner claims 3k OCIs with M1. Dunno, but somebody somewhere must have gone longer because it took a good bit of scrubbing with simple green and a power washer to make it look good in there.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #56
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So I pulled the engine and discovered that I could pretty likely have driven the car with the pickup tube the way it was. No hole, and seems really solid, even where the scar is.

I'm glad I pulled it anyway. I now have peace of mind, and it gave me the opportunity to really clean up the bay. Actually the fiancee cleaned it up / de-greased everything and painted the lower half of the master cylinder where some previous owner allowed fluid to drip on it. She painted the tab that I had to cut for turbo clearance, too. I think I'll hang onto this one. :-)
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:12 PM   #57
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Did you manage to pull it with the engine in the car?
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:36 AM   #58
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Did you manage to pull it with the engine in the car?
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So I pulled the engine
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:01 AM   #59
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Gah just read through this, that sucks! But I'm glad the outcome was pulling the engine and fixing it. Even if it had all worked out, peice of mind is win!
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:03 AM   #60
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Did you manage to pull it with the engine in the car?

No. See the post just above your question.
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