Noob to this, not to that...
 

Hello all, IB4 OMFG SEARCH

I've done a lot of reading. Including the "ALL FAQS EVER." Post. I've searched, and searched, but things are still bugging me. Below is general information about my car. Then I will list my problems.

1. Yes, I'm going to buy a MSPNP2, not now, because I'm enlisted so I'm not close to being rich. $800.00 is a lot of money for something I then have to work on for many, many hours and or pay some guy to tune.

2. It's the BEGI-Shanghai kit with SS everything, traditional SS DP, small churbo, and RRFPR. It's supposed to be here.... A fucking week ago... Stephanie assured my wife it would be here.... Yesterday.

3. 1991 NA Miata 1.6l 47k miles 1 owner car.

IT HAS 7" 2001/1997hybrid torsen rear end. Bigger brakes, 225 BFG rivals, and hard dog roll bar.

IT WILL HAVE Koyorad 37mm radiator, silicone hoses, 1.3 rad cap, tan top 265cc injectors, ACT stage 2 clutch kit, new water pump, 2.5" straight piped exhaust.

4. It is daily/track driven



Issues...

Wideband o2. Is it just for tuning or is it for handling the day to day AFR measurements? I know it will only work with the MSPNP2 (whenever i can buy that...) If I have a shop tune the vehicle, coulnd't I forgo the WB o2?
Everyone says "ZOMFG YOU NEED ONE!" However they're always referencing the tuning aspect... I've street tuned with a DSM link in the past, and the MSPNP seems a lot.... less easy.

6PSI. will I need to pull timing to get this to run right? Basically from what I've seen from Begi, they may not tell you the full story. Is it worth it to install a bipes unit until i can afford a real MSPNP2? Do I need to retard the timing as part of install? I read the manual and it mentioned nothing of it, but I also read here that "A lot of people blow their engines around here on 6 or less PSA."

Once I get the MSPNP2 doesn't anyone have preloaded maps to get me ballparked to a safe power potential with the above listed mods? It's so weird that everyone seems to be full custom here. I'm used to a lot of copy/paste/lightly tune emanagement. It's all pretty intimidating.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1434514650

Pics for clicks.

Hello everyone. Can't wait for everyone to tell me to search... lol.

You need wbo2 for tuning and general engine performance conditions. Not sure about your kit, but I don't see injectors in your list of parts. No two engines are the same, just wayyyy to many factors for error, that's why maps dont get shared too often. For this, DIY provides maps to get you started.

Yes, you need a wideband if you want your mspnp to run perfectly every day and actually read/adjust a proper range of afr
Yes, you'll need to retard timing.
No, do not buy a crappy bipes.
Lastly - I recommend FM if you want parts that actually arrive complete, timely, and fit/work.

Fm also has some of the best customer service of any store I've ever dealt with. You can do the things you listed but I'd personally wait for engine management.

I went the route you did and If I had a non turbo car I'd troll around n/a before I'd turbo without ecu upgraydde.

Also your clutch went out as you were posting your turbo was on the way. Better get on that.

-Yes you need a wideband.
-Why not just save up the cash and buy a MS? I mean, you'll have enough time to buy the MS before all your parts show up in working order from BEGI anyway.
-Every basemap I've ever gotten has had me on the road and autotuning within a few hours. (obviously calibrating everything first is what takes a little time)
-Then you can buy proper injectors.
-Reroute is pretty much required if it's going to see any track duty.
-Clutch?

You buy the wideband so the car tunes itself and you don't need to pay a guy. And you don't have to pay a guy to retune it every time you modify your setup. It's called VE Analyze live which is part of the program called TunerStudio and it autotunes your MS2 for fueling. You use the basemap that comes with the MS2 for spark and don't screw with that.

You aren't going to listen to me so I don't know why I bother, but, you don't actually want to install the BEGi kit until you have the MS and wideband installed and you know how to use them. The BEGi stuff will take a few weeks more if they told you yesterday, so you have time to save up.

The 265cc injectors are too small to do anything useful so don't waste your money. Buy used rx8 injectors if you are piss poor. RX7 injectors if you can't even afford piss.

I can only laugh at the fact you dropped money for the turbo kit already but list in the things you intend to buy the clutch, radiator, water pump, hoses, etc. You are fucked up from the word "go" with your priority choices. And it's a daily. What do you plan to do for the week it is down for unforseen missing pieces and parts when you are installing the "complete" BEGi kit (which is never complete)? Good luck with that.

I'm not hating. I just know better.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1434558972

+1

I recommend doing installs in a specific order because over the years I have learned what tends to work the best and cause the least amount of headaches.

Actually guys. The WILL HAVE parts are parts I already own, but THE CAR WILL HAVE. As in, not installed yet... I'm not sure if I'm being unclear, or you guys just like being overly critical without having all the facts, but I'm going to go with the latter. :jerkit: The only things I don't have are the MSPNP2 and the WBO2

Autotune, holy shit man. No one mentioned anything about it, other than IT DOESN'T WORK!!!111!!one!!! Glad to hear someone promoting it. That makes me feel a lot better. So, I'm assuming I need the LC-01 now due to the reported consistency in voltage readings through the band? Or is AEM the flavor of the month? They both have their horror stories. I FUCKING HATE calibrating shit, I do it almost every day at my job.

So, I gotta get this WBO2 before the DP shows up, so I can get that bung on there. If I could get a hold of Stephanie, I would just ask them to weld it up while it's collecting dust in their shop, but I can't. lol.

I bought my suspension and brakes from FM, but I wear silver and black insignia on my uniform, I can't afford an FM turbo kit. :party:

RX8 injectors for what? Reliability? Increased detonation protection over the 265cc ones? I'm not trying to blow 200000000psi on first start up. I was thinking about 180hp would be more than enough for my track days. Just enough to keep up with the Ken Block wannabes in the straights and still absolutely molest their dreams in the corners. 265cc is a good jump over stock... They came free with the rear end swap. I mean I read a lot of recommendations to get them from this very forum. RX8 is it the flavor of the week or what? Plug and play? Should I sell the tan tops and get them instead? :brain:

RX8 injectors because they are better technology. They will idle better and give you more headroom than stock. Yes, they are pnp with MS.
There is a better option now. Trackspeed is selling GT500 injectors that are EV14 and are pnp.

So if I have this right... I should expect better efficiency AND POWER with these , with having the tech of the present with the MSPNP being able to bridge the gap between my old fuel rail and these new injectors? This is some really incredible stuff. I think MS is just underEXPLAINED, all any one ever writes about is how "great" it is. No one is explaining these fine details to me.

Sort of. I mention the increased headroom of the GT500 injectors because they are a little larger than 600CC. This will allow you to supply more fuel when you inevitably want to increase boost.
The main benefit is being able to idle well despite being much larger. You should also be able to run E85.

Get RX8 injectors if you feel like doing the bare minimum.

Calibration isn't a hassle, it's a privilege.

Nobody buys LC-1s anymore.


Yes because 265s won't deliver enough fuel to make power.

Wut.

Because the fine details are available everywhere on the internet, in stickies, and in the tuning guides.

wait, why doesn't autotune work?

Because reasons.

Because actually noob to everything.

It's in the threads here and there, procured using the holy search button.

About bridging the old fuel rail new injectors and emanagement. Imagine this.

I plug the GT500 injectors into my mostly stock miata. Do they work? Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. Without the MSPNP's features I can't bridge the gap between new tech and old tech. It's all pretty clear, you just need to get the image of a shirtless justin bieber out of your eyes and read my post.

So if no one is using LC-1s anymore (another great thing about the search feature, out of date threads) what is the new "best" WBO2?

That's not a "tech" thing, though. That's plugging big injectors into a car and then not doing anything to compensate for it.

And you need to understand your place and realize that you're getting much more helpful responses than your asinine and ridiculous questions warrant.

Make sense?


Jesus Christ.

MTX-L
LC-2
NGK AFX
Ballenger AFR500
UEGO
ZT-2
ZT-3

etc etc etc etc.

UEGO and MTX-L are the most popular. "Best is subjective." For your low goals, pick the one that everyone else uses. MTX-L or UEGO.

:rofl: I loled.

No one is gonna answer your questions if you're a giant sarcastic asshole...


Go ahead, say something funny in response.

I did, too. He's got a way with words. :giggle:

Too bad it's not accompanied by a willingness to do any thinking for himself.

We like sarcastic assholes that make witty remarks here, just not when they're complete and utter idiots otherwise.

When people say "search", it doesn't always mean "plug this exact question into the search function and it will read your mind and magically tell you exactly what you need to know, word by word and point by point"

So you gotta be smart too, not just smartass.

I have been experiencing VEAL for the first time this week. Take it from someone who's been tuning MS boxes on an amateur and professional level for almost a decade: VEAL is basically cheating.

I like watching it work, tweaking the VE table numbers to perfection while the EGO trends towards 100%. It must be what factory workers feel like when a robot takes their job.

Wait did you not use VEAL in MegaLog viewer way back in the day when you has your original MSPNP?

I don't have a problem with that as long as the robot is programmed correctly.

How exactly is none of this valid? How am I not thinking for myself?

Get torsen from 1997 with low miles, buy 7" ring/pinion from 1999, get 1 piece axles from 2001. That took a bit of research and initiative, and a mild amount of technical knowledge to do the swap with just myself and a friend in a dark garage. You guys act like I'm not doing ANY footwork. By searching "Wide Band O2" the results I get tell me to choose between the AEM unit and the LC1. So sorry you guys are answering questions, but I do appreciate the responses. This forum is about as hostile as the MKIV forum on vwvortex. The hostility is completely unwarranted. I've done my research (granted based of old information) but I acquired the required parts, and I'm stuck on management, and WBO2. My bad guys?

The only way to advance the community is through the free sharing of information, not withholding information because I don't know the exact search terms I need to ping on to find EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Just insisting I'M the asshole and telling me to search serves no one.

You're getting the information. Stop bitching about it. Jesus.

If you had done the research from the beginning, you wouldn't have even entertained the idea of running bandaids "at first."

It's cool, we're all dumb at one point or another. You're getting the answers. All you questions have been answered. It just gets old when the same exact questions are asked multiple times EVERY week. This week is no exception.

bandaids are for monetary reasons, not because they're acceptable solutions man. I already mentioned that. I'm going to have to wait for the next paycheck to see if I have enough holdover to get the MSPNP2 and an LC2. Hopefully I do. It sounds a lot easier than I anticipated to get this thing street tuned.

maybe because lc-1's aren't in production anymore.

You should be searching the mt.net forum about autotune not the lil weazy forum. It's actually good and i've never read any real negative words about it.... in fact the first search i do about ve analyze is "VE analyze live is tits.".

If you also searched you'd know that we'd all blow our rectums out the second we heard you mention running a turbo with bandAIDS.

It isn't 2007 anymore. it's been a good 7 years since they've been considered acceptable.

Additional advice: I haven't used our search in a while and it very well may be donkey dick. I used to use it (and it worked well for me... that was before the site migrated) but now just use google. Google allows you to search sites specifically so you should do something like "best oil site:www.miataturbo.net"

Just enter your search followed by site:www.miataturbo.net and it'll search mt.net like a boss.

Edit: If monetary is an issue you definitely started with the wrong mods. just saying brah. as said if you did your research you would have INVESTED with the ecu first and worked your way into the turbo.

Dude. It's stupid easy.
Install basemap. Calibrate sensors. Get car to idle. Turn on VEAL. Daily drive.
You'll have a better tune in a few days of daily driving than a lot of "tuners" could probably get you. (minus some other things you need to manually tune, coldstart, idle, warmup, timing, ect.)

Plus, like these people said. You want to run your car N/A when learning to tune. That way you can't really blow it up. Order of operations should go > install MS, tune > install injectors, tune > install turbo system, tune > increase boost very slowly and tune accordingly.

We tell you these things not because we want to see you struggle, or waste your money, but the opposite. We've been there done it.
Or just do what you want.

With MLV it is off-line and is not called VEAL.

With TS, it is real time, and is called VEAL (VE Analyizer Live).

You need to relax a little (a lot) buddy. This is a car forum. Most of us are a little rough around the edges, and everyone takes a little abuse.
You received almost none before you started complaining about it.
We have a vested interest in making sure these cars don't get blown up for stupid reasons. It keeps the price of parts down.
AEM UEGO if you don't want to calibrate and don't care about slow refresh times, MTX-L if you own a scrotum and calibrate like a man.

I swapped to AEM in 2010, so I don't think VEAL in MLV was a thing..?

It was out since 08, but I think only got really popular around 10-11 or something. at least among miatas

Calibrating is a privilege that allows accuracy. Otherwise you fluctuate unknowingly. But that's a different thread.

Quit complaining. We are really a very helpful bunch unless we sense bitchiness, so please do avoid it.

The 265cc is what the stock 1.8 comes with and will be inadequate to reach your 180whp goals with any headroom for safely. Besides, 180whp is not enough. The bottom end of the engine is good for 230-250 so stopping at 180 is pretty pointless when you need just as much work to reach either goal.

And the "will be doing" list didn't have any qualifiers that differentiated it from the "can't afford right now" list so it was certainly ambiguous enough to appear like you would be doing it at some point later. I'm glad you see the necessity of those items prior to adding additional power. We get many every month that don't see with clarity until it is too late and it hurts them. When you indicated bandaids were on your purchase list it appeared you were headed down the wrong path. Even bandaids require a wideband to "tune".

But the VE Analyze live feature allows you to just drive around and it changes your fuel map to match your targets without any input required from you. It is "cheating" as Savington puts it. And it is wonderful.

And I'm not being sarcastic when I say good luck. I mean it or else I wouldn't be offering advice or criticism. It is just my way. If I wasn't trying to help I would have just ignored you.

Exactly. I'm a douche to you because i love you.

Probably not in that way. But maybe.

Alright guys, I'm going to eat nothing but ramen this pay cycle so I can get mtxl or aem uego and the MS. I suppose I've got another month to get everything shoved in the car if Stephanie said the shit is on it's way. ( liar)

There you go! That's the right attitude.
Plasma clinics sometimes have really good first time donor benefits as well.

:laugh: this thread delivers.

B&G are site sponsors, right??

You can eat cheap without Raman. Not ramen cheap but still cheap and nutritional. I think we got a thread for that too. Search.lolol. It's a nutrition/food thread. Not specifically a Raman save money eat cheap thread.

Noob to this, not to that...
 

You said you were tracking the car. what tires and brakes are you using? Are you still using the 1.6 rotors?

1.8 rotors/calipers slotted and drilled. 15x7.5 tr motorsports 11.5lb wheels with 225/45r15 bfg rivals.

Noob to this, not to that...
 

What pad compound?

The bitch of that is, the stickied FAQ is from 2007, and it seems to be friendly to all sorts of bandaids, ancient injectors and other hardware that offend the veterans here. You can't tell someone to Search or to read the stickied threads; they'll stumble onto that thing and be significantly misled, which brings us to situations like this.

You mean the FAQ from 2006 where it was suggested EVEN THEN the best option was and still is a standalone ECU...

https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...big-post-4288/

Why man-sized tires on boy-sized wheels?

Unsprung weight savings. Wheels only have to be big enough to clear your brakes, nothing more.

Then why not run smaller tires that work better on your smaller wheels? They would weigh less. More unsprung weight savings!

Ebc yellow.

Because I don't feel 205s are going to adequately handle the boost.

Get pads that don't suck.

Get wheels that fit your tires.

At 225whp, with a 5 speed and 4.10 LSD a proper 195 tire will handle it.

I mean the wheels are on pretty good . I don't see how these don't fit. Nor do I see how my brakes suck.

Come on guys, in my wife's full bolt on/tuned '90 I can break the tires free. And she's rocking 205s.

The ring/pinion I got is the 4.30 from the 99-02? Torsen.

Sounds like her tires or suspension sucks.

I have those pads on my car. They're fucking awful.

The point we're making is that 1) you don't need 225s to hook up weaksauce power, and 2) those 225s crammed on some 7.5s aren't doing you any good. Probably nothing better than cheaper 205s would do. If you want to run 225s, i'd suggest going up to 9" wheels. The extra pound per corner won't kill you.

My 2004 gti had 17x7s with 225s from the factory. I've got an additional .5"

The wheels fit great. I see no reason to run a wider wheel besides the fact that it is ever so slightly doing the opposite of poke n stretch , mad fly stance, yo. *shocker sign*

If performance doesn't concern you, then you can just say so, and i'll go back to my table. There's a reason why nobody on here runs 225s on a wheel that narrow.

The reason is?

Because it sucks. We will only spoon feed you so much.

Right now you've got a bastard setup that could be better going with your choice of smaller tires or larger wheels. You're in this weird middle ground that is ripe for improvement.

I mean, you say that but according to bfgoodrich I can use this wheel on a 15x7 to a 15x8.5, so that's my source for information I just want to know yours.

Source: Every successful competition Miata on this site, ever.

If you want to sit at the grown-up table, you run 205/50 on an 8, 225/45 on a 9, 245/40 on a 10, or 275/35 on a 10 or 11.



There's a difference between "can" and "good."

I agree. However, I don't have supporting documentation. Our local boosted guy (all 3 of them) do not run that setup. So what I have experienced is different from what you're telling me, so without some sort of proper evidence we have your suggestion which in sure is valid but no proof, so I can't really put new tires on my budget list when I'm here trying to save money for a megasquirt man. The tires are already on the wheels , which are already on the car.

Good luck.


Our love has grown stale and stagnant. I'm going to find someone else.

Lol, thanks man. The closest thing I could find to proof of your claim, is the following from the other miata site.

Some guy on the other miata website says...

Regarding the 205 vs 225 comparison - the tire width in relation to wheel width has to be taken into account. On an 8 inch rim, 205/50 will create more grip than 225/45. The 225/45 needs a 9 inch rim to create max grip. The reason is the flex and squirm in the sidewall. Putting just a slight stretch stabilizes the contact patch. If the tire is wider than the wheel, it can deflect and deform more laterally, reducing overall grip. Similar to backpacking with loose stuff shifting around in the pack - it throws you off balance.

The spec Miata probably had 7" rims, and so could not maximize what the 225 had to offer.

This has been tested on higher hp turbo miatas - same driver/track/day.

However I inherited this setup from a friend who is pretty big time in racing, it was super cheap, and so far it works. When the tires go, I'll re-evaluate tire selection for next season.