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Old 06-17-2015, 01:17 AM   #1
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Default Noob to this, not to that...

Hello all, IB4 OMFG SEARCH

I've done a lot of reading. Including the "ALL FAQS EVER." Post. I've searched, and searched, but things are still bugging me. Below is general information about my car. Then I will list my problems.

1. Yes, I'm going to buy a MSPNP2, not now, because I'm enlisted so I'm not close to being rich. $800.00 is a lot of money for something I then have to work on for many, many hours and or pay some guy to tune.

2. It's the BEGI-Shanghai kit with SS everything, traditional SS DP, small churbo, and RRFPR. It's supposed to be here.... A ******* week ago... Stephanie assured my wife it would be here.... Yesterday.

3. 1991 NA Miata 1.6l 47k miles 1 owner car.

IT HAS 7" 2001/1997hybrid torsen rear end. Bigger brakes, 225 BFG rivals, and hard dog roll bar.

IT WILL HAVE Koyorad 37mm radiator, silicone hoses, 1.3 rad cap, tan top 265cc injectors, ACT stage 2 clutch kit, new water pump, 2.5" straight piped exhaust.

4. It is daily/track driven



Issues...

Wideband o2. Is it just for tuning or is it for handling the day to day AFR measurements? I know it will only work with the MSPNP2 (whenever i can buy that...) If I have a shop tune the vehicle, coulnd't I forgo the WB o2?
Everyone says "ZOMFG YOU NEED ONE!" However they're always referencing the tuning aspect... I've street tuned with a DSM link in the past, and the MSPNP seems a lot.... less easy.

6PSI. will I need to pull timing to get this to run right? Basically from what I've seen from Begi, they may not tell you the full story. Is it worth it to install a bipes unit until i can afford a real MSPNP2? Do I need to retard the timing as part of install? I read the manual and it mentioned nothing of it, but I also read here that "A lot of people blow their engines around here on 6 or less PSA."

Once I get the MSPNP2 doesn't anyone have preloaded maps to get me ballparked to a safe power potential with the above listed mods? It's so weird that everyone seems to be full custom here. I'm used to a lot of copy/paste/lightly tune emanagement. It's all pretty intimidating.



Pics for clicks.

Hello everyone. Can't wait for everyone to tell me to search... lol.
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Old 06-17-2015, 04:01 AM   #2
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You need wbo2 for tuning and general engine performance conditions. Not sure about your kit, but I don't see injectors in your list of parts. No two engines are the same, just wayyyy to many factors for error, that's why maps dont get shared too often. For this, DIY provides maps to get you started.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:59 AM   #3
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Yes, you need a wideband if you want your mspnp to run perfectly every day and actually read/adjust a proper range of afr
Yes, you'll need to retard timing.
No, do not buy a crappy bipes.
Lastly - I recommend FM if you want parts that actually arrive complete, timely, and fit/work.
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:30 PM   #4
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Fm also has some of the best customer service of any store I've ever dealt with. You can do the things you listed but I'd personally wait for engine management.

I went the route you did and If I had a non turbo car I'd troll around n/a before I'd turbo without ecu upgraydde.

Also your clutch went out as you were posting your turbo was on the way. Better get on that.
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:55 PM   #5
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-Yes you need a wideband.
-Why not just save up the cash and buy a MS? I mean, you'll have enough time to buy the MS before all your parts show up in working order from BEGI anyway.
-Every basemap I've ever gotten has had me on the road and autotuning within a few hours. (obviously calibrating everything first is what takes a little time)
-Then you can buy proper injectors.
-Reroute is pretty much required if it's going to see any track duty.
-Clutch?
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Old 06-17-2015, 01:36 PM   #6
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You buy the wideband so the car tunes itself and you don't need to pay a guy. And you don't have to pay a guy to retune it every time you modify your setup. It's called VE Analyze live which is part of the program called TunerStudio and it autotunes your MS2 for fueling. You use the basemap that comes with the MS2 for spark and don't screw with that.

You aren't going to listen to me so I don't know why I bother, but, you don't actually want to install the BEGi kit until you have the MS and wideband installed and you know how to use them. The BEGi stuff will take a few weeks more if they told you yesterday, so you have time to save up.

The 265cc injectors are too small to do anything useful so don't waste your money. Buy used rx8 injectors if you are **** poor. RX7 injectors if you can't even afford ****.

I can only laugh at the fact you dropped money for the turbo kit already but list in the things you intend to buy the clutch, radiator, water pump, hoses, etc. You are fucked up from the word "go" with your priority choices. And it's a daily. What do you plan to do for the week it is down for unforseen missing pieces and parts when you are installing the "complete" BEGi kit (which is never complete)? Good luck with that.

I'm not hating. I just know better.

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Old 06-17-2015, 02:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
You buy the wideband so the car tunes itself and you don't need to pay a guy. And you don't have to pay a guy to retune it every time you modify your setup. It's called VE Analyze live which is part of the program called TunerStudio and it autotunes your MS2 for fueling. You use the basemap that comes with the MS2 for spark and don't screw with that.

You aren't going to listen to me so I don't know why I bother, but, you don't actually want to install the BEGi kit until you have the MS and wideband installed and you know how to use them. The BEGi stuff will take a few weeks more if they told you yesterday, so you have time to save up.

The 265cc injectors are too small to do anything useful so don't waste your money. Buy used rx8 injectors if you are **** poor. RX7 injectors if you can't even afford ****.

I can only laugh at the fact you dropped money for the turbo kit already but list in the things you intend to buy the clutch, radiator, water pump, hoses, etc. You are fucked up from the word "go" with your priority choices. And it's a daily. What do you plan to do for the week it is down for unforseen missing pieces and parts when you are installing the "complete" BEGi kit (which is never complete)? Good luck with that.

I'm not hating. I just know better.

+1

I recommend doing installs in a specific order because over the years I have learned what tends to work the best and cause the least amount of headaches.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:24 PM   #8
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Actually guys. The WILL HAVE parts are parts I already own, but THE CAR WILL HAVE. As in, not installed yet... I'm not sure if I'm being unclear, or you guys just like being overly critical without having all the facts, but I'm going to go with the latter. The only things I don't have are the MSPNP2 and the WBO2

Autotune, holy **** man. No one mentioned anything about it, other than IT DOESN'T WORK!!!111!!one!!! Glad to hear someone promoting it. That makes me feel a lot better. So, I'm assuming I need the LC-01 now due to the reported consistency in voltage readings through the band? Or is AEM the flavor of the month? They both have their horror stories. I ******* HATE calibrating ****, I do it almost every day at my job.

So, I gotta get this WBO2 before the DP shows up, so I can get that bung on there. If I could get a hold of Stephanie, I would just ask them to weld it up while it's collecting dust in their shop, but I can't. lol.

I bought my suspension and brakes from FM, but I wear silver and black insignia on my uniform, I can't afford an FM turbo kit.

RX8 injectors for what? Reliability? Increased detonation protection over the 265cc ones? I'm not trying to blow 200000000psi on first start up. I was thinking about 180hp would be more than enough for my track days. Just enough to keep up with the Ken Block wannabes in the straights and still absolutely molest their dreams in the corners. 265cc is a good jump over stock... They came free with the rear end swap. I mean I read a lot of recommendations to get them from this very forum. RX8 is it the flavor of the week or what? Plug and play? Should I sell the tan tops and get them instead?
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satisfied View Post
As in, not installed yet... I'm not sure if I'm being unclear, or you guys just like being overly critical without having all the facts, but I'm going to go with the latter.

You were being unclear.

RX8 injectors for what? Reliability? Increased detonation protection over the 265cc ones? I'm not trying to blow 200000000psi on first start up. I was thinking about 180hp would be more than enough for my track days. Just enough to keep up with the Ken Block wannabes in the straights and still absolutely molest their dreams in the corners. 265cc is a good jump over stock... They came free with the rear end swap. I mean I read a lot of recommendations to get them from this very forum. RX8 is it the flavor of the week or what? Plug and play? Should I sell the tan tops and get them instead?
RX8 injectors because they are better technology. They will idle better and give you more headroom than stock. Yes, they are pnp with MS.
There is a better option now. Trackspeed is selling GT500 injectors that are EV14 and are pnp.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
RX8 injectors because they are better technology. They will idle better and give you more headroom than stock. Yes, they are pnp with MS.
There is a better option now. Trackspeed is selling GT500 injectors that are EV14 and are pnp.

So if I have this right... I should expect better efficiency AND POWER with these , with having the tech of the present with the MSPNP being able to bridge the gap between my old fuel rail and these new injectors? This is some really incredible stuff. I think MS is just underEXPLAINED, all any one ever writes about is how "great" it is. No one is explaining these fine details to me.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satisfied View Post
So if I have this right... I should expect better efficiency AND POWER with these , with having the tech of the present with the MSPNP being able to bridge the gap between my old fuel rail and these new injectors? This is some really incredible stuff. I think MS is just underEXPLAINED, all any one ever writes about is how "great" it is. No one is explaining these fine details to me.
Sort of. I mention the increased headroom of the GT500 injectors because they are a little larger than 600CC. This will allow you to supply more fuel when you inevitably want to increase boost.
The main benefit is being able to idle well despite being much larger. You should also be able to run E85.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satisfied View Post
Actually guys. The WILL HAVE parts are parts I already own, but THE CAR WILL HAVE. As in, not installed yet... I'm not sure if I'm being unclear, or you guys just like being overly critical without having all the facts, but I'm going to go with the latter. The only things I don't have are the MSPNP2 and the WBO2

Autotune, holy **** man. No one mentioned anything about it, other than IT DOESN'T WORK!!!111!!one!!! Glad to hear someone promoting it. That makes me feel a lot better. So, I'm assuming I need the LC-01 now due to the reported consistency in voltage readings through the band? Or is AEM the flavor of the month? They both have their horror stories. I ******* HATE calibrating ****, I do it almost every day at my job.

So, I gotta get this WBO2 before the DP shows up, so I can get that bung on there. If I could get a hold of Stephanie, I would just ask them to weld it up while it's collecting dust in their shop, but I can't. lol.

I bought my suspension and brakes from FM, but I wear silver and black insignia on my uniform, I can't afford an FM turbo kit.

RX8 injectors for what? Reliability? Increased detonation protection over the 265cc ones? I'm not trying to blow 200000000psi on first start up. I was thinking about 180hp would be more than enough for my track days. Just enough to keep up with the Ken Block wannabes in the straights and still absolutely molest their dreams in the corners. 265cc is a good jump over stock... They came free with the rear end swap. I mean I read a lot of recommendations to get them from this very forum. RX8 is it the flavor of the week or what? Plug and play? Should I sell the tan tops and get them instead?

Get RX8 injectors if you feel like doing the bare minimum.

Calibration isn't a hassle, it's a privilege.

Nobody buys LC-1s anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by satisfied View Post
So if I have this right... I should expect better efficiency AND POWER with these
Yes because 265s won't deliver enough fuel to make power.

Quote:
, with having the tech of the present with the MSPNP being able to bridge the gap between my old fuel rail and these new injectors?
Wut.

Quote:
This is some really incredible stuff. I think MS is just underEXPLAINED, all any one ever writes about is how "great" it is. No one is explaining these fine details to me.
Because the fine details are available everywhere on the internet, in stickies, and in the tuning guides.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:47 PM   #13
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wait, why doesn't autotune work?
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:48 PM   #14
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Because reasons.

Because actually noob to everything.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:57 PM   #15
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wait, why doesn't autotune work?
It's in the threads here and there, procured using the holy search button.

About bridging the old fuel rail new injectors and emanagement. Imagine this.

I plug the GT500 injectors into my mostly stock miata. Do they work? Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. Without the MSPNP's features I can't bridge the gap between new tech and old tech. It's all pretty clear, you just need to get the image of a shirtless justin bieber out of your eyes and read my post.

So if no one is using LC-1s anymore (another great thing about the search feature, out of date threads) what is the new "best" WBO2?
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satisfied View Post
It's in the threads here and there, procured using the holy search button.

About bridging the old fuel rail new injectors and emanagement. Imagine this.

I plug the GT500 injectors into my mostly stock miata. Do they work? Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. Without the MSPNP's features I can't bridge the gap between new tech and old tech.
That's not a "tech" thing, though. That's plugging big injectors into a car and then not doing anything to compensate for it.

Quote:
It's all pretty clear, you just need to get the image of a shirtless justin bieber out of your eyes and read my post.
And you need to understand your place and realize that you're getting much more helpful responses than your asinine and ridiculous questions warrant.

Make sense?

Quote:
So if no one is using LC-1s anymore (another great thing about the search feature, out of date threads) what is the new "best" WBO2?

Jesus Christ.

MTX-L
LC-2
NGK AFX
Ballenger AFR500
UEGO
ZT-2
ZT-3

etc etc etc etc.

UEGO and MTX-L are the most popular. "Best is subjective." For your low goals, pick the one that everyone else uses. MTX-L or UEGO.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satisfied View Post
It's all pretty clear, you just need to get the image of a shirtless justin bieber out of your eyes and read my post.
I loled.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satisfied View Post
It's in the threads here and there, procured using the holy search button.

About bridging the old fuel rail new injectors and emanagement. Imagine this.

I plug the GT500 injectors into my mostly stock miata. Do they work? Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. Without the MSPNP's features I can't bridge the gap between new tech and old tech. It's all pretty clear, you just need to get the image of a shirtless justin bieber out of your eyes and read my post.

So if no one is using LC-1s anymore (another great thing about the search feature, out of date threads) what is the new "best" WBO2?
No one is gonna answer your questions if you're a giant sarcastic *******...


Go ahead, say something funny in response.

Last edited by 18psi; 06-17-2015 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:04 PM   #19
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I did, too. He's got a way with words.

Too bad it's not accompanied by a willingness to do any thinking for himself.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:06 PM   #20
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We like sarcastic ******** that make witty remarks here, just not when they're complete and utter idiots otherwise.

When people say "search", it doesn't always mean "plug this exact question into the search function and it will read your mind and magically tell you exactly what you need to know, word by word and point by point"

So you gotta be smart too, not just smartass.
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