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Old 11-29-2006, 01:25 AM   #1
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Default so say i got a greddy turbo kit...

http://www.turbo-kits.com/miata_turbo_kits.html

i get the kit... kit arrives... bolts on perfectly


now i need to know the following:
To increase PSI (8-10psi), i'd need new injectors, some sort of boost control, eventually a new clutch, and what else?

i have been on these forums for the past month and everyone seems to have a different set up. It is hard to get a straight answer even though everyone is VERY helpful!

sorry if this question has been asked before but Ive looked and cannot find a definite answer. Plus, i am very new to boost. thank you
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:45 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savior View Post
http://www.turbo-kits.com/miata_turbo_kits.html

i get the kit... kit arrives... bolts on perfectly
Thats always nice ... i dont know of any problem here

Quote:
Originally Posted by savior View Post
now i need to know the following:
To increase PSI (8-10psi), i'd need new injectors, some sort of boost control, eventually a new clutch, and what else?
you seem to know what you would need to get there. I dont think you can go much over 300cc with the 1.6 MAF though. On the topic of boost control, manual boost control would allow you to go up to your boost targets, but you would not be able to run ideally because you will either have to run your wastegate srping too loose causing slower reaction of the turbo, or lower your overall boost for a quicker spool, but with spiking. Electronic boost control would allow you to get the best of both worlds at a higher cost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by savior View Post
i have been on these forums for the past month and everyone seems to have a different set up. It is hard to get a straight answer even though everyone is VERY helpful!
There are lots of different setups because there is more than one way to do it. Also not everyone has the same goals. You should definitely consider right now if you will be happy with around 200rwhp or if you would want to go bigger later on. This does makes a difference in what path you might want to start with right now as the greddy kit starts to loose steam without major upgrades after this point and you may find yourself replacing nearly the entire kit over time.


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sorry if this question has been asked before but Ive looked and cannot find a definite answer. Plus, i am very new to boost. thank you
no prob.
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Old 11-29-2006, 07:41 AM   #3
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There are Soooo many different ways to control fueling and timing. This is what normally leads to confusion. Half of it is price, half preference, and all are dependent on how far you think you want to take it.
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Old 11-29-2006, 09:55 AM   #4
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Exactly. You could spend well over $500 on Fuel Pump, Bipes, O2 Clamp, etc. or the same on an EMB or MegaSquirt and most of the components would be absolete.

I'd suggest clicking on the GReddy Intercooler Kit link on the top of the site and then reading my FAQ and decide how you want to go about adding boost.
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:59 AM   #5
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Honestly, if i were to do it again, I would start with engine management that can control larger injectors and get it running N/A first. it seems like the EMU is pretty proven to work well and you can get a plug and play harness. After that, I would work on stuff I could that would compliment the turbo like suspension, exhaust and clutch. Then when its turbo time, you just need the turbo + piping and some injectors to run it with.

Oh, and even though greddy is 1300, I have a feeling you would end up spending quite a bit more than that since it sounds like you already plan to upgrade. do it right the first time around and you wont end up putting (as much) expensive stuff in the closet
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:05 AM   #6
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You're on the right track. We'll say 10psi is your goal so not to skimp on anything.

FUEL Then you'll need a new disk for your Greddy FMU... Brain ran a 6:1 disc for his T3s60 at 9psi which got him 190rwhp and almost flat A/F's. I'd say used 305's($50) are your best bet for injectors on the stock MAF. Other guys say you can idle just fine on the 330's, but nobody has been able to do more. An RX7(used $40 or so) MAF might get you a little better tunability with bigger injectors... we'll see, my dyno expiriments will commence next week and then we'll all know for sure. You could also splurge on a Begi or similar AFPR for added tunability of both base fuel pressure and rate of rise. Don't forget about a new fuel pump. I wouldn't bother with inline units... just get a Walbro 190HP drop in and be done with it. ($80 shipped new). A dual feed fuel rail mod is fairly easy to do when you take the rail off to install new injectors... also plan in integrating a fuel pressure gauge in your fuel system (easy to splice in). An O2 clamp is getting to be a standard recommendation around here ($60).

TIMING Setting your base timing back to 6* just won't cut it anymore. You need to be able to run a higher timing at low RPM's for torque and take it out in the midrange to keep from knocking. A good setting might be (base set at 14* and pull 2*per 1000rpms an 1*per XX temp starting at 2500 and a max of 6*) Used Bipes go for about $175 and are the magic ticket.

Or you could skip everything above so far and go with emanage for the same price or a used Link for about $1000.

Your biggest expense (if not Link or EM) is going to be a new clutch. The stock clutch will last you a day or two at 10psi. Budget about $450 and invest in a StageII from any of the major popular brands. I'm currently installing a Spec Stage II, was $310 shipped from here http://www.jdsperformance.com/spec.a...iata&fcmd=cars. Then another $125 on front/rear tranny seals, rear main seal, CAS o-ring, top/bottom shifter boots, water plug, buy from here http://www.finishlineperformance.com...ta_engine.html

AIR TEMPS You need to get the temperature of your intake charge down. Solutions are INTERCOOLER and WI or combo. Air-to-air intercoolers kits are available used all the time or you could fab up your own (do you have AC or PS). 2"piping will be fine, but you'll have better luck sourcing 2.5" stuff. No need to go huge on your IC, this is a fairly popular one around here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/28X7X...58833699QQrdZ1 It's exactly the same width as the radiator. In the classifieds, there is a group buy on a hugely successful Water Injection Kit that you could run by itself to take you safely past 10psi which will offer more adjustability and control and be 100 times easier to install than an IC.
Forget about air-water IC's, the cost and complexity isn't worth it. Budget about $300 for whatever you decide to do.

You'll also want to recirc your blow-off valve. I'll be doing both of those this weekend assuming I finish the clutch.

For the stock Greddy kit, did you make the relief cuts in the Manifold? Somebody might want to chime in here with more knowledge than I... also something about the studs that came in the Greddy kit are not good quality???

The Greddy DP is the weak link in the kit. I don't think you want to mess around with 10psi on the stock DP. At that PSI, it's probably worth a solid 15hp. It's very restrictive and reduces spool time. Of course the stock exhaust is also next in line to go.

And of course you need to set up the car to handle your new power... stock suspension is just dangerous with 200rwhp... KYB AGK shocks and RB sways are the cheap ticket to better handling... tires and wheels are next, no need to go bigger than 15" rims and 205 rubber. I also suggest a rollbar.

In addition to all of that, the 6" dif in the 1.6 Miatas is your one unknown. If you shift hard, drag race, drift, or in general are not very smooth on your equipment, you'll break the dif. Some guys report long miles at med. boost levels on the thing, but they will confess they're not really hard on it. A 1.8 Torsen upgrade will run you about $700 used for Dif/Carrier/DS/axles assuming you find one local. A 1.8 open upgrade is way cheaper but just as strong.

Enough for now, gotta go to work.
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:52 AM   #7
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Kingof1337 sells a plug and play MS setup for the 1.6 for $550. If you don't mind learning how to tune it, thats a great option.

Last edited by rotaryjunky; 11-29-2006 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:01 PM   #8
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please dont use the GReddyFAQ page and use mine here or BRGRacer's GReddy specific one.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braineack View Post
please dont use the GReddyFAQ page and use mine here or BRGRacer's GReddy specific one.
Only, I never finished my FAQ...

However, just to add my 2 cents. Granted sometimes you're not sure, but I'd say that first you might want to get an idea of what kind of power levels you are looking for in the long run and how you plan to use the car (i.e. track/auto-x/weekend warrior/daily driver).

Just as olderguy said, there is no ONE way to get to your endpoint, BUT the different options have different prices/challenges/pros/cons/etc.... Your choice really depends on budget/purpose of car/how "good" a tune you want/need.

FWIW I have had my GReddy for almost three years now and am on my third fuel/timing setup to date and each had their quirks so YMMV.
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:06 PM   #10
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Wait a second... I just reread your post... confirm that you have not yet purchased one and this is a hypothetical question??? In that case, skip the Greddy and build your own. It's an enormous waste of money to buy a new Greddy kit if you plan to quickly upgrade.

Here's my build sheet and rough final cost.
I've done all the homework and the math... 10psi is roughly 200rwhp depending on your turbo and is gonna cost you $2000 for DIY.
If you spend $1200 on the Greddy, the only think you'll keep when you upgrade is the turbo and mani, maybe the FPR, the rest of the Greddy kit, including the DP, oil lines, crossover tube, etc, will be scrapped and is wasted money.

A Begi Mani($439), DP($285) and a used SR20det T25 ($150) for a total of $775. A used Link is $900, and a good IC setup $300... then just some misc lines and hose, BOV, boost gauge and a few other bits for a total of about $2200.

Or you could buy the Greddy kit for $1200, then scrap everything but the turbo and mani, then spend another $1000-$1500 to get the things you need for 10psi. But to stay in the $2000 range, engine management is not an option, it'll be mechanical fuel and Bipes.

If you only have the $1200 and simply don't want to wait... JUST WAIT. Start buying parts now and installing the things you can. Bipes/AFPR/DFFR/Walbro/Boost Gauge/IC... can all be installed and still run NA. Build it over a few months to distribute the costs. You'll have higher quality parts... you'll spend a little more time and you'll do it right instead of cutting corners while you try to do everything in one weekend... and you'll learn more as you go.

Last edited by samnavy; 08-01-2007 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Wait a second... I just reread your post... confirm that you have not yet purchased one and this is a hypothetical question??? In that case, skip the Greddy and build your own.

Here's my build sheet and rough final cost.
I've done all the homework and the math... 200rwhp is gonna cost you $2000 for DIY.
That's one opinion. Depending on how much time you have, facilities at your disposal and fabrication skills it might not be a good one. How long did it take you from when you started to gather parts will you were driving the car under boost?

Buy the greddy kit, stripes I/C kit and a Tony (maybe now BEGI) downpipe and spend $2000 on a completely new kit. Add in a Bipes and a BOV then call it a day. Spend a weekend installing everything and away you go. No ******* around rebuilding turbos, sourcing every single piece from different vendors, rolling your own I/C pipes and mounts for the i/c .... you get the idea.

Both are perfectly fine ways to go. And besides, didn't the OP want to know about engine management? Please don't be like a m.netter preaching your solution as THE best solution. It is A solution.

Jay
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:20 PM   #12
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To increase PSI (8-10psi), i'd need new injectors, some sort of boost control, eventually a new clutch, and what else?
That's what he asked.

He didn't say anything about engine management, that was the rest of us giving a variety of opinions on possible routes. In fact, I think I gave about four different possible ideas, including several ways to get the Greddy to work, Link, MS, emanage, mechanical. I was very careful to highlight costs as a major factor because that's what pulls most people towards the Greddy in the first place. I was careful to point out that in the long run with a goal of 10psi, the Greddy costs more for equal or lower results and greater chance of failure with the lower quality parts in the kit. I didn't highlight skillz or resources needed because he didn't ask "How hard is it?" and the plain fact is that it isn't hard to build your own. "Harder" yes, "Hard" no!

It took me almost four months to source and install everything and it worked perfectly the first try... and I'll never have to worry about a cracked manifold or oil lines or my brake reservoir melting or any of the standard Greddy BS that everyone has to overcome to run more than stock boost.

Buy the greddy kit, stripes I/C kit and a Tony (maybe now BEGI) downpipe and spend $2000 on a completely new kit. Add in a Bipes and a BOV then call it a day.

The plain fact is that the only parts you keep from the $1200 Greddy are the Mani (which you need to cut and replace the studs), the Turbo (which is not water cooled), and the FPR (which has limited capabilities).
The DP hurts you the more you turn up the boost
The oil lines are known to fail
The crossover tube no longer applies

So, what else can you get for your money
Begi Mani $439
Begi DP $285
Used turbo $150-$200 (just buy one that doesn't need a rebuild (T3 or T25)
AFPR (numerous brands) used $175
quality oil lines/water/tap/block fitting (dozens of online places) $100
Total: $1200

You still need to source everything else needed for 10psi just as you would with the Greddy, (IC/Bipes/BOV/Inj's/Pump/etc) or (IC/engine management) except you start with higher quality parts, better designed, and will last forever.

I have nothing against the Greddy kit. If you want a super easy, install in a day, no thinking required, all you'll ever want is 140rwhp, and all you'll ever have is $1200, then the Greddy is your baby... assuming the mani never cracks and the oil line holds up and you don't melt your brake reservoir or bubble the paint on your hood or suck filter shreddings down the intake.

But, with a goal of 10psi, if you have the time and even the slightest bit of creativity, you can build your own kit of greater quality and performance, longer lasting with better reliability, and significanlty cheaper.

And of course MY WAY is the best way!
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:54 PM   #13
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thank you, everyone has been very helpful.

samnavy was correct; this thread was purely hypothetical.

i am planning on getting a miata in the summer or next summer and am trying to gain as much knowledge as possible.

Considering that I hope to study mechanical engineering next year, I think the miata will be a great project! As of now, I plan on doing a DIY kit and hoipe to achieve around 200 rwhp. Thank you guys!

btw, I am still open to suggestions so if you have an idea, let's hear it!
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Old 11-29-2006, 06:21 PM   #14
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buy a used greddy and save tons of $$$. always pop up for sale. if hypothetically you go that route.
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Old 11-29-2006, 09:11 PM   #15
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If you have that much time until you get a miata, I'd keep an eye on the classified for a DIY setup for sale (like kungfujesus's awesome deal) that someone else already did most of the legwork on and either needed $$$ or ran out of patience.

Heck, since you haven't bought a miata yet, I'd think about getting a 1.8 instead anyway for the bigger engine, brakes, and pinion gear right off the bat.
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