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Old 07-18-2007, 11:46 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
just dangle a peice of vac hose into a bucket of clean preferably distilled water and let it suck abit in there, try this for 3-5 minutes and then drive the car noting the improvements of your now clean combustion chambers or buy a Devils own WI kit and feel the difference while boosting
That's a good way to kill an engine.
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Originally Posted by Uncle Arthur View Post
OK - I tried this little trick tonite, and the trick I've found is - don't. Must be that the motor was too hot - or too much water was sucked in all in one go...... it went clunk, seized, pot 1 had a whole lot of water in it, and now the motor needs a major transplant.

All plugs out - engine not turning at all.....

Engine go bye bye.

Do not try this.
omg it DID kill an engine. It pays to read I guess.

Last edited by Braineack; 07-18-2007 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:03 PM   #62
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Yeah I guess we should have said something about making sure to slurp up water very very very slowly....however I did post the instruction from mazda with that disclaimer....and it looks like they actually install a restrictor in the vacuum line as well.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:53 PM   #63
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Damn Arthur i am sorry to see that happen how much water did you use? Ben and several other people have done it no problem did you use a big ole vaccum line or what. I understand how it could **** up the motor but more details on exactly what was done would help others from repeating your mistake. How many liters of water did you go through, how big was the vac line wich line was it, and for how long did you do it?
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:53 PM   #64
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do you just use the port the cruise control uses
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:34 PM   #65
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Oh Wow.....
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:38 PM   #66
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I've done it multiple times, on multiple engines/cars.
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:15 PM   #67
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I inject water all the time with out this effect Arthur something has gone horibly wrong with how you did your treatment i understand you are pissed right about now but come on tell us what you did different than all of us.
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:44 PM   #68
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Magna - I did right what you *ucking said to do in your post - exactly how you said to do it.

Yes - I'm pissed.

Pissed because I asked specifically about tips tricks and hazards to doing this, and how I should go about it.

Pissed because against my usually better judgement and reservations I thought - well - it sounds simple..... and seems sound in theory.

Pissed because I have to source a replacement motor, remove the turbo, the gearbox, the clutch, etc etc etc - and replace what was until 14 hours ago a very nicely runing motor.

Pissed because I have to explain to my fiancee why I need $1k from our savings to fix my *uckup.

Pissed because I have better things to do with my savings than fix a *uckup.

While I don't directly blame anyone except myself - might I suggest that when someone asks a question on the forum about doing something potentially damaging, that whoever answers considers how little detail is too little.....

What I did.....

I put about 300ml of water in a plastic bottle - the bottle water type of bottle.

I removed one of the vacuum lines off the front of the plenum, as per the Mazda directions.

I put about 30 cm of hose on the vacuum, with the engine idling along very sweetly.

I 'dangled' the hose (as per your directions) in the water. It went slurp, cough cough cough clunk. And that was the end of that. I pulled the plugs, and tried to turn it over. It went turn turn turn clunk, and that was the end of it all. I looked in pot 1, and it was full of water, with little bits of carbon floating on the surface. 2, 3, 4 appeared dry, and didn't have any water pump out of them (used a little hand bottle pump on the same length of vacuum). About 100ml came out of pot 1. I could hear water sizzling in the exhaust manifold below the turbo. The turbo seems fine - spins freely.

So there you go - that's what happened.

Last edited by Uncle Arthur; 07-18-2007 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:15 AM   #69
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Wow. Maybe Magna, or someone else knows or thinks they know why this happend?
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:38 AM   #70
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Uncle Arthur. Mazda's instructions mentions the restrictor. Did you pull the plugs out and try to crank it over? The water can stay in there for awhile and keep it locked. The damage, if any, may be limited to a bent rod or no damage at all. The cranks are pretty tough from what I've been hearing and if this happened at idle there's a good chance your ok. I've hydrolocked many motors that lived afterwords. Mostly motorcycles and snowmobiles. If it's a 1.8L I can give you a good used rod and piston if it'll help. Good time for a set of bearings and rings maybe? Sorry to hear this happened though.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:40 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidin'Miata916 View Post
Wow. Maybe Magna, or someone else knows or thinks they know why this happend?
Simple physics. You can't compress a liquid. His engine took in too much water too fast. Idle vacuum is +/-20in. That'll suck alot of water thru even an 1/8" vac line really quick.
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:07 AM   #72
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Did you pull the plugs out and try to crank it over? The water can stay in there for awhile and keep it locked. The damage, if any, may be limited to a bent rod or no damage at all. The cranks are pretty tough from what I've been hearing and if this happened at idle there's a good chance your ok. I've hydrolocked many motors that lived afterwords. Mostly motorcycles and snowmobiles. If it's a 1.8L I can give you a good used rod and piston if it'll help. Good time for a set of bearings and rings maybe? Sorry to hear this happened though.
Yes - I have tried to crank it - might try again this arvo, but it was pretty locked last night.

It's a 1.6 but thanks for the offer of the piston and rod - might be a long way to send it though - I'm in Australia.

I agree with how much it must have sucked in - too much too fast - given the contents of pot 1..... shame magna's instructions on dangling a vac hose weren't a little more 'expressive' or my reluctance to try this a little stronger.

Let this be a very cheap warning for others here, and an expensive lesson for me.....
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:26 AM   #73
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Oh sorry mate! hehe I didn't know you were in Australia. I may have though because I did read why your name is Uncle Arthur. When you cranked it were the plugs out? They have to be out so the water gets pushed out otherwise it won't compress and you can't turn the engine over. I can get 1.6L internals too so just in case. You pay shipping only. =)
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:10 AM   #74
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Oh sorry mate! hehe I didn't know you were in Australia. I may have though because I did read why your name is Uncle Arthur. When you cranked it were the plugs out? They have to be out so the water gets pushed out otherwise it won't compress and you can't turn the engine over. I can get 1.6L internals too so just in case. You pay shipping only. =)
That's a really nice offer - thanks Lazzer

They were, but I think it just sucked too much in and the damage was done.....

I've got a couple of sources for a 2nd hand motor - one with only 26000km, so I've got some options, and a lot of good friends who can assist.

There's a huge Aussie MX5 scene here - check out www.aus-cartalk.com, and the MX5 forum is the most active of the lot.

I've also posted up details of this little misadventure in the engines section there - you can see how we mx5ers ale always willing to help out, regardless of where we live.....
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:26 AM   #75
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Damn arthur Im sorry mate. I figured the chances of something like that happening where pretty slim, remember Ben doing it not to long ago with good results. If you want then you can try to beat me up next time I am down under. In all honesty it is exactly how it is done, i figured you would foul the plugs before you did any damage. The dish on the head is 12 ml i dont know how much dish there is on the piston so maybe if you only got say 20-30 ml of water in pot 1 and the rest in 2,3,4 and the exhaust. The chances for nominal damage is low, in wich case maybe it washed the cylinder walls of oil and the piston seized up abit maybe a little oil and some elbow grease will move it. The inside and outside pistons come up and down in unison so if you got a full rotation out of the crank before it said clunk the chances of damage go down dramatically as well. You might not blame me but I am sure others will try lemme know if i can be of any more positive help lemme know. If you like i will take the rap in the eyes of your fiance as well. Just tell her it was the dumb american caveman.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:22 AM   #76
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I'd at least try better in drying it out (dry cloth in the spark holes [dont drop it in ]), drop a teaspoon of oil in each, manually turn the crank, try again.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:45 PM   #77
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Quote:
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I'd at least try better in drying it out (dry cloth in the spark holes [dont drop it in ]), drop a teaspoon of oil in each, manually turn the crank, try again.
Ive tried manually turning the crank - not even budging.

I put it in gear and tried to move the car to turn the engine - I may as well have the brakes on...

Old engine coming out - replacement engine going in.
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Old 07-20-2007, 01:48 AM   #78
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Wow, i did that with on my daily driver miata by hooking up a vac line to the Charcoal canister hookup at the Manifold and dipped it into a bit of water until the revs dropped and used the throttle cable to rev it up occassionally ... sucked up a 2 liter bottle over like 5 minutes. Im really glad i had no problem like this. Sry to hear that this happened Arthur. Definitely take out the plugs and try turning over again though as it wont let the engine have any compression that way.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:28 AM   #79
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That's a really nice offer - thanks Lazzer

They were, but I think it just sucked too much in and the damage was done.....

I've got a couple of sources for a 2nd hand motor - one with only 26000km, so I've got some options, and a lot of good friends who can assist.

There's a huge Aussie MX5 scene here - check out www.aus-cartalk.com, and the MX5 forum is the most active of the lot.

I've also posted up details of this little misadventure in the engines section there - you can see how we mx5ers ale always willing to help out, regardless of where we live.....
If it's still not turning with the plugs out then yeh, you bent a rod and maybe twisted the crank as well. When you get your motor out break it down and let us know what happened. Good to know you Aussie's stick together. Great to have good friends to help you in a bind eh?
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Old 07-21-2007, 08:10 PM   #80
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Alrighty - the old motor came out yesterday, and number 1 conrod looks like a banana. So if you were nearby Lazzer I'd take you up on that offer of rods and pistons - I might still if it won't cost too much to get them posted across - it will probably be much cheaper that way than buying them here.....

The head internally (valves, ports, etc) looks *ucking spotless. So looks like I got it clean afterall.....

I've sourced a replacement engine which needs some minor servicing - timing belt, water pump etc, which I can do while it is on the engine stand - then across goes the gearbox, etc etc and away we go.....
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