True cost for a solid kit?
 

Most kits in my experience are missing something or there are hidden costs. for example, engine management is junk, drivetrain can't support the power etc. what would I really be getting into if I decided to go turbo?

My engine may need to be replace soon anyhow.

I have considered a LFX swap because it is almost as cheap as a miata engine.

Show us a kit and we can tell you what it's missing and you can figure out how much it costs to buy that stuff. Some kits are going to come with everything you need, others will need a clutch, or injectors, fuel pump, engine management, o2 sensor, gauges, exhaust, etc.

The definition of a solid kit depends heavily on your power goals.

Good questions.

How about reliable power on a stock engine?

Do you have any fabrication skills? How are your shopping skills in comparison to your research skills?

Let's just say I would rather deal with a bolt on kit. No welding. Wiring is fine and I have a mspnp already.

Nawwwwwwzzzzz! All you need: NOS 05000 NOS Powershot Nitrous Systems - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

FM2 no-electronics kit. Add injectors, fuel pump (maybe), and a clutch.

Roll out.

If i were to build another Miata from scratch and for whatever reason wanted to stay with a BP, this is exactly what i'd do. Easy and bulletproof button. I don't give a shit about the last 5-10% of performance on a street car. If i want to go faster, i throw together a bottom end and crank the fuck out of the boost. Add bigger turbo as necessary.

^ word.

all the info you need is on this site. Just gotta read.

If I were shooting for a reliable 220 ish whp on a budget this is what I would do:

-begi s kit (call and ask for a price minus the FPR and intake cross over tube)
-rebuilt sr20 turbo
-ebay universal intercooler kit + whatever BOV you want
-diypnp from brain +wide band + 440cc or more injectors
-clutch kit
-3 in exhaust (2.5 could work too)

or just troll sell threads for a used kit.

You want the simplest answer?

FM non electronics kit.
Add ecu, wideband, injectors, clutch, and exhaust.

Done

Expect about $5000 spent to get 200-220whp in a reliable setup, if you do all the installation and tuning yourself.

This is pretty accurate. When I was contemplating buying a NA Miata and building the turbo kit myself I had roughly around this number.


I don't want to do the math on how much money the original owner+what I added cost....:facepalm:

$500 for injectors
$500 for clutch
$1000 for MS + wideband
$3000 for a hardware kit from FM/Begi

Or buy an OEM msm turbo setup, rx8 yellow injectors, ecu of your choice, 2.5 inch catless exhaust and make 220whp 240wtq at 12psi on a conservative tune. And of course a clutch to hold up.

the oem ihi turbo system sucks and is always overpriced.

and will still bring to to about the same price using a sub-par turbo known for failing and a manifold that only accepts sub-par turbos, and a DP that's-you guessed it--sub-par.

I love simplicity. Bolt on a Greddy and live happily everafter.

I am also fudging a bit.

We've been busy creating the world's first COMPLETE 350 rwhp turbo kit for the Miata.

Contents:
Forged pistons
Prepared and ported cylinder head
Manley con rods
Race bearings
Gasket set
Other Internals
New timing belt
New Water pump
New intake manifold
70MM throttle body
Turbo
4 into one cast ductile iron manifold
Speed density engine management
Suitably sized injectors
Coil on plug conversion
3.0 dual parallel cat mufflerless exhaust system
cork's bypass valve
Remote wastegate
250 square inch paper element air filter
Aluminum tubes
24 inch tube IC
New bell housing
New clutch, P Plate & TOB + pilot bearing
T5 Super duty gearbox, special gearing, with mounts, shifter and driveshaft
New 3rd member with 2.9 gears
Wilwood brake systems
Bilstein coil overs
Four of the latest Tires
Roll Bar
Replacement harness with Simpson's best
Delete mechanism for steering lock
Quality crash helmet
Oil cooler
Rear thermostat kit
Larger, cross flow radiator
Air duct kit
Innovative O2 meter
Engine Oil
Coolant
Bosch Fuel pump
Fuel cell
New oil filter
Transmission oil
Diff oil
Two days of one on one instruction at Harris Hill Track in San Marcos, Texas.
Price Cobb Instructor
And,

I'm about to get on a roll here. So, what does 'complete' mean?

corky

When everything you order arrives?

When all of it arrives, on time, and all the correct parts, and nothing missing, and with valid instructions, and all of it fits, and all of it works together, and there are no excuses or bs.

Hey Corky, can you ask Stephanie to familiarize herself with all these concepts?

That does seem to be a consistently recurring problem for BEGI. I've heard little else about them for the last five years.

Corky, by all accounts you are a wonderful man and we want you to succeed, but you need a capable and experienced manager to run the operation of the day to day business. Someone with authority to make things run correctly. Your business would double if people could count on it consistently meeting their needs and expectations.

I wish you the best.

I didn't see a billet oil pump on the list.

Stephanie is probably just as confused by Corky's attempts at humor as we are. If he ever does confront her about her attempts to ruin his business he says something off the wall that makes no sense and she nods her head and continues with "business as usual".

Six months and counting and I still don't have a complete kit, so by definition I don't think BEGi EVER makes a complete kit.

Keith

A kit that arrives in a timely fashion with all the parts specified, with fitment that doesn't suck dick for food stamps, complete and accurate instructions, and since you're paying a premium for a "complete kit," customer service not administered by a troll sounds pretty good, too.

Fucking lol

Having a begi kit, & being local makes my situation slightly bettererer...

But in the few months I've lurked before actually creating an account here Ive skimmed across nothing but hate for BEGi, though everyone is entitled to their opinion and personal customer experience. Surprising none the less, though I'm still waiting on a grey medium shirt :giggle:

I have trouble gasping BEGi is that problematic, they could be busy, awaiting on more parts/services to be completed for extras on kits, or your kit may not be the only one ordered? Mom & Pop sized shop not able to spit out kits like hotcakes?

Either way, so what the kits are not shelved and ready to go? few months to make it "complete" by some standards? On average, how long does it normally take a person to piece together their own kit? Waiting on manifolds, coatings, machine shops etc.

/endramblingconfusednoob

:laugh: this is gon get good

propped

PS: I really hope Corky actually looks at this thread again instead of forgetting about it like every other thread he's ever posted in on MT

The time from order to full delivery is probably the least offensive part. Check out some of the build threads to see just how awful an experience it truly is. Twodoor's is a good place to start.

I could piece together my own kit in 2-3 months, and have nobody to blame but myself for any fitment issues, but i'd probably not have any, because this website is an incredible resource.

STOP disturbing Mr. Bell you idiots. If you continue to yank the chain he won't build anymore parts for the miata community all due to your own stupid fault.

Mr. Bell, I am not interested in your turbo kit or parts but I would like you to come forward and give more details on the T5 Transmission project you previously talked about. I think a lot people will like to hear more from this project as well. Thank you very much.

Maxmium boost was a good read. I can't speak personally about BEGI's customer service and delivery time but I don't think the turbo kit market (non DIY) would be what it is today without Corky.

You didn't get the memo that his entire post was bullshit, did you?

As troll worthy as Corky's post is, he makes an excellent point. Namely that just hitting your power goal for one pull on a dyno costs about 30% of what it really takes to put together a well engineered, daily and track reliable F/I kit regardless of the power goal.

There is a sliding scale of cost vs whp vs duty cycle. Lemme 'splain

1. Cost. Directly related to power goal but also modified by duty cycle

2. DC. In race car, aircraft and marine applications, many parts are "timed out". That is, the specific amount of time they see is recorded. Parts replaced when they reach a certain time limit. For our HPDE and race cars, we assume full race pace. For a street car, 100 hrs is maybe 6 months of driving and one set of front pads. For a racecar, that's maybe 2 years on track and probably 7 sets of pads. How does this relate to trubos? A race car will see full power at least 50% of the track with a good driver. Some tracks that goes up to nearly 85%. A newb driver might only be 25%. So 3hrs on track for a weekend might be over 2 hrs at full throttle for the experienced driver. I street car might take years to get that much time at WOT/high rpm. Add to that the much greater heat soak of the track car and you get an idea of how much tougher on a car it is. So even if you don't do track days, the time at high rpm/WOT varies widely even for street and autocross cars. That is duty cycle and must be factored in to any cost vs whp calculation. There is no magic algorithm but if one of the Miata vendors with experience on track tells you $15k after interviewing you for a few minutes, believe it.

3. WHP. There is an ancient catch phrase in the automotive aftermarket. "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?". Assuming you are a credit card mechanic, meaning you leave the fabrication, tuning and engineering to a pro but do your own oil changes and simple bolt ons, here's my rough estimates on the power part. This is not including stuff like brakes, wheels, roll bar, etc. Supporting drivetrain mods would be oil cooler, radaiator, reroute, clutch, transmission, forged engine internals, crank damper, custom exhaust, engine management, race gas, etc.

Broken down into a few segments:

NA8/NB <190whp
<$5k for just the power making bits
<$3k drivetrain and other mods to make engine bombproof on track

NA8/NB <250whp
<$7k for just the power making bits
<$4k drivetrain and other mods to make engine bombproof on track

NA8/NB 250-320whp
<$7k for just the power making bits
<$8k drivetrain and other mods to make engine bombproof on track

NA8/NB 320-440whp
<$9k for just the power making bits
<$16k drivetrain and other mods to make engine bombproof on track

Resources
If you can fabricate, tune and are OK utilizing used parts, these can all be done for a fraction of these estimated costs. Of every 50 DIY'ers that attempts a high hp turbo track Miata, I'd say 48 fail. Some with flames and projectile parts vomiting. Not impossible, just usually requires someone with an long history around high performance cars, engineering background and endless patience. Bob Bundy, H-F and a few others here are prime example of the type of outlier that actually makes 350whp work for crazy long duty cyles. Don't ask them how many hours or $ they have into their cars..

So figure out:
Duty Cycle: How it's gonna be used at full power.
Cost: How much you are realistically willing to spend over the next year or to on power adder & supporting mods
WHP: I'll give you a hint, this number is usually the result of first two variables, not an input. IOW, your budget, usage and resources should dictate what power you end up with, not the other way around.

May you achieve all the bewsts:party:

This post makes absolutely zero sense. People complain about incomplete kits and poor instructions, and you talk about how maybe we should be more reasonable with our expectations because they must have more than one customer.

:facepalm:

I want to post a TL;DR: so bad. :bowrofl:


<3 u, Emilio :giggle:

Well....YEA, basically. I'm surprised to the level of service that comes out of that tiny building.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1411153825

:hustler: Not really making excuses for them. Really just curious on to "why so much hate" on MT?

Incomplete kits & poor outdated instructions, obviously bad. Hopefully there is a master check list with each item number for the kit. Hopefully the installer makes sure all parts are included before starting. And hopefully, BEGi can correct that mistake in a timely manner... Hopefully. And imo, complaining about instructions for a 'complete' kit is just asking for your favorite pretty pink princess spoon. Tough sh*t, why are you doing this kit yourself then? Didn't you research countless hours before hand and know turbo kits in/out?

When I walked through BEGi's shop I understood the realistic limitations with any vehicle build. And while most here are fapping to efr threads and wondering why their built to order kit is taking so long, everyone adds their :2cents: and goes along with the chorus. Begi hate! ra! ra! ra! :vash::vash::vash:

Are you completely blind? We have already referred you to one example in particular where BEGi seriously dropped the ball.

We hope the best for BEGi and hope that they'll solve the problems that have arisen the last few years. Obviously they are to credit for so much of the development of Miata tuning.

Seriously.

Read Twodoor's build thread before you post in here again. He's not the only one.

I just... the idiocy in your post is beyond words. If I pay several thousand dollars for a prefabbed kit, I should be able to get it home, unbox it, and install it. The parts should be labeled (turbo coolant supply hose, return hose, etc). If I want to DIY a kit myself I should be allowed to do so.

Why are you turning this into another "Prove to me why BEGi isn't perfect" thread? The proof is in the pudding.

*edit* and once again, you reference that people are concerned about the time it takes to get the kit.

Ok. Let's go over this.

Someone says "It'll be there in 2 months." You expect it in two months, right? Well three months goes by. "give us another week." 2 more weeks go by "we'll have it monday." Monday goes by.

Do you understand this pattern and why it is a problem? if not, then I'm talking to a brick and I give up.

Just to be clear: You're saying that it's our fault for our kits not being complete? Or for wanting our shit to fit right?

The price is the fucking difference. I would have saved between 3 and 4 thousand dollars by doing a "do it yourself" kit, and it would have been completed in less than 6 months.

As is, I got fucked in the ass without even being taken to dinner or being told I was pretty :(

Keith

Subbed.

There was a "how long did it take to get your complete BEGI kit" poll several years ago that summed it up pretty well, but I can't find it now. I seem to remember my kit (purchased shortly after I joined the forum) was right around the average at 6 months late. It's not like this is a new phenomenon.

**EDIT - Found it, and it wasn't nearly as bad as I was remembering** https://www.miataturbo.net/bellengin...ry-time-31084/

They do make some great stuff though and overall the kit was absolutely solid. A lot of my kit has been upgraded and parted out over the years, but quite a few pieces still remain and are getting ready to go on yet another miata.

:party:

I really couldn't care any bit less about what sort of facilities they have. If they're marketing off the shelf complete kits, then i'd like what i'm paying for.

They could be working in mud huts with straw roofs for all i know. Not something i think or care about.



Your argument is like.... I type something like this:


"Well what do you expect, he's using Windows XP, still!"


Seriously?

Right,

So what has mt.net done for Mr. Bell to address these issues? Other than rant, give 2cent opinions, & fap to efr builds?

Obviously we want success, we want part options, as well as answers to delays.

Petition? Thread Sticky so he sees it? Obviously this forum is a niche percentage of customers who have a voice in the turbo miata world.

I'm all for proof in the pudding, and time will tell with Mr. Bell if this place and other customers continue to have issues.

What can WE do to address these issues, rather than not buy from them and let their business sink.

And actually I think they do have XP on their machines, could be wrong :giggle:


*edit

Props to Emilio's post +++++1

Op, obviously you have choices and depending on your choice your experiences may differ.

It comes down to being physically/mentally prepared for the build, organization and having all your ducks lined in a row. Do this, keep your cool, and take your time.

I wish I could fit this entire post in my sig...:makeout:

We live in a free market. There should be no Miata turbo "Bail outs" required for a company.

That's a great question.

Ask not what A Company Who Charges You Money can do for you... Ask what you can do for the company.

:rolleyes:

We expect to keep our stuff organized and our ducks in a row. Is it unreasonable to expect the same from a company marketing pre-engineered turbo kits?

Completely reasonable, And with that being said obviously there are issues within the company.

But what has mt done other than jump on the hater wagon?? syrsly?

It's not too often I read a begi hate comment, "Oh they should do this" or "Steph should be fired, poor management etc"

It's never...

Dear Corky, <3

We at MT.net wuv you and your fabously aweesome stufff, how can we help to address your problems to make your business grow. pwease consider... :makeout: ps. kittykittykitty :party:

Sir, please... please read... The rest of the posts on this page.

https://www.miataturbo.net/prefabbed...8/#post1168495

No thanks, not the point and you're not catching on. :facepalm:

I'm asking, why not try a more direct approach? Thread comments are buried in well, threads. I listed above some examples in a previous post.

Another idea would be why not have a dedicated sticky mega thread of everyone's complaints (past & present)? Hrmm?

What can we do for this company to assist in their success. A simple direct request of demand & reasonable services that are meeting all of 'our' expectations.

Have at it sir.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1411162115

As usual Emillio nails it. Really depends on use. If you're just dicking around and driving to get ice cream, that 220hp is literally the kit, ecu, injectors, clutch, and exhaust. Start to drive it any harder than that and you're quickly going to need to start spending more money. I've kind of taken the learn from Bundy and friends approach to track proof my car since I have nearly the same issues as all of them, except cooling isnt as big of a deal and 100 hours take me 20 years and 7 sets of pads. That said, even at auto-x without ducting (I should probably work on that) but with a hood vent. If its over 85°F out and I have to do more than 3 runs in a heat the ebay rad + monster fans need to get sprayed with cooling water between runs to keep the coolant temps below 220°F.

RE Begi: Corkey is ok, they got to fix their logistics and nix steph.

As funny as it is to read all this, I will try and steer back to the OP.

So far in my build thread here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...ommuter-80535/

I am currently at $1,790.62 total for turbo- related costs only. Clutch or reroute is not included in that total.

From my planning, the only other expenses I should have are for some straight 3" pipe and a boost gauge. Although something else may come up.

You are really fucking kidding me, right?



https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1411167153

he's either retarded or trolling.

I mean "GUYS, LETS HELP THE COMPANY WE'RE PAYING PUT OUT A PRODUCT IT ADVERTISED TO US TO BUY IN THE 1ST PLACE"


herp derp

What have we done?
We've hated on them for their bs.
That's "doing something".


Next time I'm at a fast food joint and I pay for a huge supersized meal and they screw it up colossally, I'm gonna go in the kitchen and help them cook.

guyths quit being haterz let's help them.

:rofl:

*-edit

lol What a fun day, can't we all just get along? :) :ughug:

Still can't fathom why I caught an infraction from responses towards similarity idiotic posts, such as this.

Much as anyone said, if you are building/marketing products, you are expected to deliver.

I for one wouldn't mind if begi went under. Then maybe their market share would be better utilized by a company that gives two shits

:facepalm:
You obviously haven't been here long.

We are not miata.net. We are a bunch of assholes who prioritize informed and accurate posts, and have low tolerance for bullshit.

What's idiotic about my post? If the truth insults you that's not my problem.

My post was based EXCLUSIVELY on the issue that some people populate the mazda forums, to trash talk some particular vendors for the things they build and do. It is like they get paid to do this or they do it to deviate a potential costumer to persuade him to buy a product from someone else. The funny thing is that these people have never build shit for the miata community, and if you don't believe me I ask the negative posters to put their products in this particular thread... including you.

I actually wanna see if the negative posters have the balls to trash talk some specific products in this website, including the Megasquirt and or whoever builds them.

Cut the horseshit, 80 percent of the parts he listed are somewhat for sale on his website. I do want to know more about the T5 transmission project he talked about tough.