Turbo for MILD track days - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Prefabbed Turbo Kits A place to discuss prefabricated turbo kits on the market
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-31-2009, 10:57 PM   #21
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

Hey hustler... my stuff hasn't loosened up yet
Splitime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 05:34 AM   #22
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,363
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitime View Post
Hey hustler... my stuff hasn't loosened up yet
Laptimes compared to SM?
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 09:00 AM   #23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 1,003
Total Cats: 14
Default

By racing I implied street racing. Hell on track you go as fast as you have ***** to push the car.
Rallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 10:20 AM   #24
Guest
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: O'fALLON, MO (St Louis)
Posts: 14
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
you're an idiot at this point to put a turbo car on the track with studs and expect it to work. There is a solution, and its v-bands. There are many theories on ways to fix this, but no one can seem to do it. Its a $2000 mistake that I won't ever make again.

Considering that you've been on a track before, you should know that racecar dependability and affordability are further apart than conceptualized extra-universal red-shift, and increasing at an infinite rate. Stay NA if you don't have the money to address every system in the car. If I had to do it all over again, I'd have a 300whp daily driver miata, and a gutted, caged, 2500rpm idling/cammed/$5k suspension NA racecar. My turbo car is too nice to treat like a filthy *****.

Edit: I think I had a lot more fun at the track in my car with 94whp because every corner was a fight, I couldn't really hurt the car, and it was really challenging to run mid-pack at the Subaru events. I haven't done a mixed track day yet, but in a 300whp car you suddenly become the target, you're watched and criticized, and there are no more excuses. Sometimes I wish I could go back 2-years ago when I worked and drove my car at the track in Oklahoma for 60-hours of seat time in just a few months. Now, its a multi-national event to get the car on the track where I find myself working on the car at 3AM so I can sleep between sessions all day and tell myself "this is what you spent $20k for; its fun, and you like it!!!" Look at where I am right now. I get my turbo kit 9-days before my favorite track event of the year and I have to get it installed, pay someone to do fab work, fix the oil cooler, make brake ducts for the bumper that will be temporary because my new bumper isn't ready yet, order spare pads, get the car on the dyno with the new parts, and hope and pray that I make it home. 2-years ago all I had to do was put a key in the car and drive it to the track, then drive it home.
Wow, wish I would have read this before I just bought my turbo and built my motor. I have what is basically a spec Miata that I am boosting, but I hate the idea of not being able to be reliable. My buddy came over and saw my project and just said....you could have done an LS1 and had a reliable motor, tranny, and rear end that were all built from the factory to handle 400 hp. Interesting thought.
Glen449 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 10:35 AM   #25
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by relte View Post
By racing I implied street racing. Hell on track you go as fast as you have ***** to push the car.
by racing I meant "interspecies escapade."
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 11:13 AM   #26
Miotta FTW!
iTrader: (24)
 
Splitime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 4,295
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Laptimes compared to SM?
Few seconds (3-4 depending on laptimes you find) faster on Gingerman Raceway (1.8mile shorty). Find me Autobahn times for South course and I can compare there also (running 1:40s and faster).

Last edited by Splitime; 09-01-2009 at 11:55 AM.
Splitime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 02:44 PM   #27
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

First of all, a 180-200whp Miata isnt a slight increase. Its pretty serious already. But all things aside, the basic rule is:

Modifying a car leads to more tool time.

That aside, you could do a 5-6psi intercooled turbo setup to work up your skills and have less (not none) heating issues. Studs are always an issue, however - my welded 304 magic stainless studs a still on and zero leaks.

OEM doesnt fail (as quickly) as they spend huge amounts of $$$ on engineering, where BEGi and FM don't spend as much.

Quote:
Cooling: I had heating issues, did the big radiator, did the rear coolant reroute, both helped but didn't eliminate the problem. Sealed around the radiator and cooling issues are history. Closing the heat exchangers so air entering the mouth can't bypass them is a must do and does not have to be a huge or expensive project.
Quoted for truth!

Quote:
Well, oil temps are a little high, but that's it.
How high and where is your cooler and how many rows?

Quote:
making aluminum underbelly pans, radiator cover and a air scooper similar to the BEGI one. If you are going to do it you might as well do it right.
Dont bother with the scoop, it will fall off. Do not skip sealing the sides - hardest part/most benefit. Top and bottom are easy.

Quote:
I am sure it will be so hard to dail down the boost when you go to the track though.
So don't, just make one package work and optimize that.

Quote:
What constitutes driving like a man then?
Laptimes tell the story. Look at the spec miata track record and if you run under them you're not slow, near 92%-93% of those times you're fast for 210-230whp.

Quote:
And then several 5min+ full throttle runs up hills with no lifting (different occasion).
In a turbo car? Watch your IAT and traffic a head. flatout in 5th and I will be in the rev limiter within half a minute.
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 03:06 PM   #28
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (16)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: where most people are Utarded
Posts: 1,323
Total Cats: 0
Default

I installed my setup last week and spoke with Corky about some of these issues. He had some great information in regard to the bolts stretching when comparing cheaper bolts to true grade 8 bolts. Needless to say that I used grade 8 for the manifold to turbo bolts and turbine to downpipe bolts. I will keep an eye on the head to manifold bolts and will eventually upgrade those as well. If you upgrade to grade 8 you will have minimal issues. When metal gets hot it stretches, grade 8 and higher steel is made at a hotter temperature so it stretches less under the heating and cooling cycles it sees in a turbo environment.

What it comes down to is doing it right the first time, because I personally hate busting my knuckles as little as possible.
zoomin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 03:11 PM   #29
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (16)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: where most people are Utarded
Posts: 1,323
Total Cats: 0
Default

Another thing to add is that water cooling the turbo in addition to just oil cooling/lubricating will increase oil change intervals by 1500-2000 miles, as per Corky's advice. I had no idea the difference was so significant.
zoomin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 05:27 PM   #30
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

Corky is a great man and knows alot of stuff but hasn't found a track proven solution for the stud issue. So I won't buy the grade-8-will-fix-it.
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 06:03 PM   #31
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 1,003
Total Cats: 14
Default

I agree with doing it right to begin with instead of dailing it back. My question still comes back to if a milder setup avoids the hardware problem. I guess 200whp is not mild since it is pretty much double the factory output. But lets say a real basic 5-6psi 150-160whp setup. Seems like even at those levels people are having problems.

But then again at those levels I might as well get a supercharger, which I don't like.
Rallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 04:18 PM   #32
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Palm Harbor FL
Posts: 332
Total Cats: 4
Default

Tial Turbine housing V band GT28R GT28R GT28RS .64 A/R:eBay Motors (item 380115875210 end time Nov-02-09 13:52:57 PST)
theres the solution for all loosening turbo fasteners. looks better flows better and is easier to work with.
1slowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 05:13 PM   #33
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,484
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1slowna View Post
Tial Turbine housing V band GT28R GT28R GT28RS .64 A/R:eBay Motors (item 380115875210 end time Nov-02-09 13:52:57 PST)
theres the solution for all loosening turbo fasteners. looks better flows better and is easier to work with.
Wow! That looks like an awesome idea! It's a shame it doesn't fit the GT2554 or 2560.

Thanks for logging in today newb.

EDIT: $400 for that thing?!?!?! wow. I'm glad for my customers that I'm a TiAL dealer.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 05:27 PM   #34
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1slowna View Post
Tial Turbine housing V band GT28R GT28R GT28RS .64 A/R:eBay Motors (item 380115875210 end time Nov-02-09 13:52:57 PST)
theres the solution for all loosening turbo fasteners. looks better flows better and is easier to work with.
That exact same housing is available for $35 less from ATP Turbo (a reputable vendor based in the US) and I imagine they don't charge $40 for postage either. (They also sell the mating flanges & clamps for less than this guy, and won't jack you for an addition $20 ea. shipping & fondling.)

In fact, I'm pretty sure that they stole that image from the ATP website.

I'm sure Tim can probably still get a better deal, but it amazes me when folks try to sell stuff like that on eBay for more than retail price.

Here's the complete list of V-band housings from ATP: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=TTH
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 08:27 PM   #35
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen449 View Post
Wow, wish I would have read this before I just bought my turbo and built my motor. I have what is basically a spec Miata that I am boosting, but I hate the idea of not being able to be reliable. My buddy came over and saw my project and just said....you could have done an LS1 and had a reliable motor, tranny, and rear end that were all built from the factory to handle 400 hp. Interesting thought.
I must retract my previous statement. I went to the first non-miata track day in this car and without a doubt, the turbo car is a giant killer and worth every cent. This car was insanely fast, all day, and reliable thanks to Tim. I ran with American Iron cars most of the day, rather than wasting my time with streetcar bullshit posers. Oh, then I threw all my **** in the trunk and drove home. That's "where its at." When you can run with American Iron/CMC, and outrun the damn racecars, then drive it home and listen to the radio...that's something special.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 10:37 PM   #36
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Palm Harbor FL
Posts: 332
Total Cats: 4
Default

yea i know im a newb lol im trying to become more involved.
i wasnt posting the link as a price reference it was just the only place i knew i could find the link in a hurry.
has anyone tried these? http://www.impulseturbo.com/images/fasteners.jpg
they work great for keeping header bolts tight on the mustangs and they say they work good for header to manifold applications.
1slowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 12:59 PM   #37
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

There is a thread to discuss turbo fasteners. You can read for pages and pages about a bunch of **** that doesn't work. Or, you can go with V-bands like i did. The great part about my hot-parts is that I can ****-stomp vettes, porsches, AMGs, blown z's, and CMC racecars for the entire track day which is like 120-minutes of seat time, and never get the tools out.

See, maybe you'll never have the problem, maybe someone will find a fix; I'll definitely drive all day and never take the tools out. lol
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 03:12 PM   #38
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Palm Harbor FL
Posts: 332
Total Cats: 4
Default

hustler are u running a tial 44mm or the new v band 38? cant tell form the photo.

Last edited by 1slowna; 10-11-2009 at 11:48 PM.
1slowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 09:54 PM   #39
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,484
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1slowna View Post
hustler are u running a tial 44mm or the new v band 36? cant tell form the photo.
He's running the TiAL MV-S EWG. He likes v-bands.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 11:49 PM   #40
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Palm Harbor FL
Posts: 332
Total Cats: 4
Default

ahh i have also been looking at that waste gate as a potential for my setup but was told that people are having issues with it spiking. the 44 is also v band but its not low profile like the new 38.
1slowna is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
01-05 Fab9 PNP COPs (used) FrankB Miata parts for sale/trade 6 09-30-2015 12:48 PM
why is my car running like pewp? (tune/datalog) itsMikey MSPNP 3 09-28-2015 07:40 AM
Recommended Tire Temp for best friction thumpetto007 Race Prep 4 09-27-2015 06:16 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:21 AM.