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Old 05-21-2007, 04:52 PM   #41
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End tanks are polished and curved, this isn't a scenario where the air hits it and bounces back, either way the air is going to be rammed into the intercooler or radiator. Thats cold air that we are talking about. With the full fascia FMIC, sure it is missing that 2" of endtank and is going straight through but, not only is the air slowed and turbulent.. it gets pretty warm. Another reason sprayers got pretty popular in DSMs pretty quick.
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Old 05-21-2007, 05:00 PM   #42
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If anyone has a problem with me they should publicly berate me, I'll get the point and I won't cry about it and ask for my posts to be deleted.

easier to save myself from being annoyed later down the road
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Old 05-21-2007, 05:21 PM   #43
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easier to save myself from being annoyed later down the road
poor guy

you didn't do it right BTW.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:21 PM   #44
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Sam, I -=>REALLY<=- hope that's not indicative of how y'all spend your free time on-base. :gay:
Yeah, if you ever see a couple of squids walking home from the Exchange with some silicone hose and KY... walk the other way. Or if that's your thing just ask where the party is!
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:30 PM   #45
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Use what ever IC fits and will allow you to route your IC piping the easiest. This is probably one area where you don't really need to over think it. People have gotten good results with both large and small.
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:38 PM   #46
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Where do you get stripes pipes????? That seem to be so highly recommended.....

Is that the kit on mxrprojects? seems really expensive for just pipes no fittings, clamps or IC for that matter
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:55 PM   #47
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mimic it for less if you can....you'll quickly come to realize the price is quite fair.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:29 AM   #48
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colder plugs = more heat in the cooling system
How's that? If your plugs run hot and lead to pre-ignition/detonation then the cylinder pressures are higher and create more heat. I'd rather have the confidence knowing that colder plug may save a piston. That's if I'm not fouling it.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:44 AM   #49
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Also, when you're drag racing, which has been my prior interest, your IC acts more as a heatsink than a heat exchanger. People would even cover them up (for aerodynamics) and just throw a bag of ice on them between runs, people like John Shepherd ran 8s with an air/air IC that was covered. There is an argument for a larger IC in this application.
The air to water ICs help for the same reason. It's a heatsink sinking the heat right to the water. The volume of water in those systems is the advantage they have. Once the water is soaked with heat it's not as efficiant as air to air. I don't recomend them for track use but on the street and the dragstrip they work well. I considered one for awhile but for the cost, air to air seemed more reasonable. Although the water to air IC makes for a clean install and a big "radiator" for the IC's water.
$.02
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:20 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Danimal View Post
Where do you get stripes pipes????? That seem to be so highly recommended.....
See the ad at the top of this page? The one just to the right of the "Ads by Google" banner? Click it.

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Is that the kit on mxrprojects? seems really expensive for just pipes no fittings, clamps or IC for that matter
See, you already knew the answer.

Feel free to DIY if you want. I did, and having been down that road I'd say that $240 is a pretty darn good deal.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:23 PM   #51
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How's that? If your plugs run hot and lead to pre-ignition/detonation then the cylinder pressures are higher and create more heat. I'd rather have the confidence knowing that colder plug may save a piston. That's if I'm not fouling it.

colders plugs remove the heat from the combustion chamber and put it elsewhere.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:08 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by lazzer408 View Post
The air to water ICs help for the same reason. It's a heatsink sinking the heat right to the water. The volume of water in those systems is the advantage they have. Once the water is soaked with heat it's not as efficiant as air to air. I don't recomend them for track use but on the street and the dragstrip they work well. I considered one for awhile but for the cost, air to air seemed more reasonable. Although the water to air IC makes for a clean install and a big "radiator" for the IC's water.
$.02
I've got buddies running water/air setups on supercharged cars and the water has never even gotten close to "warm"
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:11 PM   #53
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yeah when you run one of these in cabin, you shouldn't worry about heat soak....



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Old 05-23-2007, 03:24 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
colders plugs remove the heat from the combustion chamber and put it elsewhere.
Could that even be measured? If the plug temp even shows up on a gauge there's other issues with the cooling system.

Out of curiosity, I heard some BMW used the AC to cool the charge air. It produced more power with the colder air then it took to run the AC compressor. I bet the 'gains' were minimal and a good FMIC would out perform it easily. But you know them germans over engineering everything. Nice cooler btw brain! lol
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:29 AM   #55
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I've got buddies running water/air setups on supercharged cars and the water has never even gotten close to "warm"
Philip. What boost levels do they run and for how long? I didn't go with a water IC because I read the efficiency goes down as the boost goes up to +20psi levels. This was last year when I talked to some Aussi company about the PWC ICs they had.
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:27 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazzer408 View Post
Could that even be measured? If the plug temp even shows up on a gauge there's other issues with the cooling system.
Possibly, something like 70-100°C is removed from the cumbustion chamber with each heat range step.

The second job of a spark plug other than igniting the cumbustion is to work as a heat exchanger by pulling heat energy away from the combustion chamber, and transferring that heat to the engine's cooling system. The heat range is a plug's ability to dissipate heat. A colder plug will have a shorter insulatlor nose.

This is why it is recommended to go one step "colder" when FI, because of the added pre-ignition surpression. But you don't want to go too crazy with it, because 1. you'll go too cold and cannot burn off carbon deposits and foul the plugs & 2. that heat has to go somewhere.

Last edited by Braineack; 05-23-2007 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:27 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Possibly, something like 70-100C is removed from the cumbustion chamber with each heat range step.
I call bullshit on that one.

Maybe the tip of the spark plug goes down by 70-100C, but not the whole combustion chamber. And even that doesn't mean squat unless we know how much heat is actually being transferred. Degrees is a measure of temperature. Joules, calories and BTU are measures of heat. I'd wager that the thermal mass of the spark plug is so small as to be meaningless relative to the cooling system.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:51 AM   #58
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Old 05-23-2007, 12:12 PM   #59
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I would get this one but maybe i am biased DevilsOwnBasic.jpg
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Old 05-23-2007, 01:54 PM   #60
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I read it off NGK's FAQ a while back

Quote:
The insulator nose length is the distance from the firing tip of the insulator to the point where insulator meets the metal shell. Since the insulator tip is the hottest part of the spark plug, the tip temperature is a primary factor in pre-ignition and fouling. Whether the spark plugs are fitted in a lawnmower, boat, or a race car, the spark plug tip temperature must remain between 500C-850°C. If the tip temperature is lower than 500°C, the insulator area surrounding the center electrode will not be hot enough to burn off carbon and combustion chamber deposits. These accumulated deposits can result in spark plug fouling leading to misfire. If the tip temperature is higher than 850°C the spark plug will overheat which may cause the ceramic around the center electrode to blister and the electrodes to melt. This may lead to pre-ignition/detonation and expensive engine damage. In identical spark plug types, the difference from one heat range to the next is the ability to remove approximately 70°C to 100°C from the combustion chamber. A projected style spark plug firing tip temperature is increased by 10°C to 20°C.

yeah Joe I think you are correct, it's the tip of plug....they do such a good job of transfering the heat, they dont operate as warm...I guess this is why it pays to re-read on the subject before mouthing off...
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