Why Hate on BEGI
10-12-2017, 03:58 PM
#1
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Why Hate on BEGI
So I have noticed more than a few people steering others away from BEGI kits. I am just wondering why that is. Is it simply that there is more power or better quality parts to be had for a lower cost? Whenever I search for this topic I just find posts mentioning BEGI and people being pointed towards MK Turbo and other places. I am interested in being CARB legal but should I really even care? Is it really time consuming to remove my turbo gear and dump the stock ecu back and exhaust back in? Please enlighten me.
Last edited by Michael Chandler; 10-12-2017 at 05:46 PM.
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10-12-2017, 04:12 PM
#5
So I have noticed more than a few people steering away from BEGI kits. I am just wondering why that is? Is it simply that there is more power or better quality parts to be had for a lower cost? Whenever I search for this topic I just find posts mentioning BEGI and people being pointed towards MK Turbo and other places. I am interested in being CARB legal but should I really even care? Is it really time consuming to remove my turbo gear and dump the stock ecu back and exhaust back in? Please enlighten me.
Call Bell Tuning and get an estimate.
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10-12-2017, 04:12 PM
#6
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Just got off the phone with her. She said told me that everything she sells in that kit is CARB legal. I guess the big factor is no end user tune ability unless i did a reflash and a MS on top of that.
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10-12-2017, 04:21 PM
#10
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So the kits that Bell has certified are:
- for 90-97, the "Bell system IV". It's certified with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, not any kind of aftermarket electronic control. This works, but it's going to cost you a lot of power and drivability compared to using a real ECU.
- for 99 (99 only, not 2000 or any other NB), the kit that was sold as an "FM2". This kit was certified with a Link piggyback controlling 2 aux injectors in the throttle body, and the CA emissions pre-cat mounted behind the turbo. To make room for the pre-cat the turbo needs to be mounted further forwards, which mens everything that attaches to the turbo is different from the usual kits. Different manifold, different downpipe, different intake, different intercooler plumbing. I actually owned one of these.
They don't make the 99 manifold any more, so it's impossible to mount the pre-cat and without that it's not legal. Theoretically the EO is probably legit for a 49-state 1999 Miata that's been imported into CA after it was sold in some other state, but most the cars you'll find in CA aren't those. You'd also need to ignore the fueling portion of the EO and find some other kind of piggyback solution.
--Ian
- for 90-97, the "Bell system IV". It's certified with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, not any kind of aftermarket electronic control. This works, but it's going to cost you a lot of power and drivability compared to using a real ECU.
- for 99 (99 only, not 2000 or any other NB), the kit that was sold as an "FM2". This kit was certified with a Link piggyback controlling 2 aux injectors in the throttle body, and the CA emissions pre-cat mounted behind the turbo. To make room for the pre-cat the turbo needs to be mounted further forwards, which mens everything that attaches to the turbo is different from the usual kits. Different manifold, different downpipe, different intake, different intercooler plumbing. I actually owned one of these.
They don't make the 99 manifold any more, so it's impossible to mount the pre-cat and without that it's not legal. Theoretically the EO is probably legit for a 49-state 1999 Miata that's been imported into CA after it was sold in some other state, but most the cars you'll find in CA aren't those. You'd also need to ignore the fueling portion of the EO and find some other kind of piggyback solution.
--Ian
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10-12-2017, 04:33 PM
#12
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So the kits that Bell has certified are:
- for 90-97, the "Bell system IV". It's certified with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, not any kind of aftermarket electronic control. This works, but it's going to cost you a lot of power and drivability compared to using a real ECU.
- for 99 (99 only, not 2000 or any other NB), the kit that was sold as an "FM2". This kit was certified with a Link piggyback controlling 2 aux injectors in the throttle body, and the CA emissions pre-cat mounted behind the turbo. To make room for the pre-cat the turbo needs to be mounted further forwards, which mens everything that attaches to the turbo is different from the usual kits. Different manifold, different downpipe, different intake, different intercooler plumbing. I actually owned one of these.
They don't make the 99 manifold any more, so it's impossible to mount the pre-cat and without that it's not legal. Theoretically the EO is probably legit for a 49-state 1999 Miata that's been imported into CA after it was sold in some other state, but most the cars you'll find in CA aren't those. You'd also need to ignore the fueling portion of the EO and find some other kind of piggyback solution.
--Ian
- for 90-97, the "Bell system IV". It's certified with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, not any kind of aftermarket electronic control. This works, but it's going to cost you a lot of power and drivability compared to using a real ECU.
- for 99 (99 only, not 2000 or any other NB), the kit that was sold as an "FM2". This kit was certified with a Link piggyback controlling 2 aux injectors in the throttle body, and the CA emissions pre-cat mounted behind the turbo. To make room for the pre-cat the turbo needs to be mounted further forwards, which mens everything that attaches to the turbo is different from the usual kits. Different manifold, different downpipe, different intake, different intercooler plumbing. I actually owned one of these.
They don't make the 99 manifold any more, so it's impossible to mount the pre-cat and without that it's not legal. Theoretically the EO is probably legit for a 49-state 1999 Miata that's been imported into CA after it was sold in some other state, but most the cars you'll find in CA aren't those. You'd also need to ignore the fueling portion of the EO and find some other kind of piggyback solution.
--Ian
You might be able to sneak by a BEGI setup by a dumb CARB guy, but one on point would probably figure it out.
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10-12-2017, 04:35 PM
#13
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From:
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...eo/D-349-1.pdf
Stephine claims that their current "ignition timing retard device" is a Megasquirt.
While I think that is sketchy as hell, the SMOG tech is not going to care if there is a CARB E.O. tag.
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...eo/D-349-1.pdf
The Mazda Turbocharger Kit includes the following: Garrett turbocharger, 10 psi. maximum boost, high flow fuel pump, intercooler (optional), two supplementary fuel injectors, fuel regulator designed to raise the fuel pressure as a function of boost pressure, open element air cleaner, ignition timing retard device, cast iron exhaust manifold, and exhaust connecting pipe. The supplementary fuel injectors are placed in an air tube just prior to the throttle body and are controlled by a boost pressure actuated electronic circuit. The manufacturer recommends 92 octane fuel.
While I think that is sketchy as hell, the SMOG tech is not going to care if there is a CARB E.O. tag.
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10-12-2017, 04:41 PM
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So I asked her about that and she said the timing retard device is the Xede, not the megasquirt and that the Xede was part of the CARB certifired kit. She also mentioned an ecu reflash option that there is no method of detection for on the CARB end. FYI: I have a 99 model 49 state federal.
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10-12-2017, 04:49 PM
#16
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So I asked her about that and she said the timing retard device is the Xede, not the megasquirt and that the Xede was part of the CARB certifired kit. She also mentioned an ecu reflash option that there is no method of detection for on the CARB end. FYI: I have a 99 model 49 state federal.
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10-12-2017, 04:53 PM
#17
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I believe there is some provision for vendors to be able to update their kits with minor revisions without needing to re-certify the whole thing. For example, the 2-injector throttle body setup had some fuel consistency issues, so they updated it to a 4-injector setup (bungs welded into the intake manifold, new fuel rail) and I successfully smogged it under that EO. This wasn't a random smog guy either, the first 4 or 5 shops I went to wouldn't touch the car, so I wound up smogging it at a referee station.
I have no idea if substituting an Xede for a Link is fully legit under the rules, but it's possible. If you've got a 49-state car, then the BEGI kit is probably the closest thing you'll find to a CARB-legal turbo kit.
So after that you have the other BEGI issues to consider. The experiences of many people on this forum (including myself) is that if you order a kit from BEGI you should expect it to be late, incomplete, poorly fitting (to the point of needing a grinder to get every single hard part to fit), and require warranty replacement of numerous components.
--Ian
I have no idea if substituting an Xede for a Link is fully legit under the rules, but it's possible. If you've got a 49-state car, then the BEGI kit is probably the closest thing you'll find to a CARB-legal turbo kit.
So after that you have the other BEGI issues to consider. The experiences of many people on this forum (including myself) is that if you order a kit from BEGI you should expect it to be late, incomplete, poorly fitting (to the point of needing a grinder to get every single hard part to fit), and require warranty replacement of numerous components.
--Ian
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10-12-2017, 05:36 PM
#18
Has anyone, ever, ordered any kit from begi, AND received it, AND on time, AND everything was there, AND it all fit right away. Ever?
Like seriously. Ever.
Also, has anyone ever heard Stephanie ever, in her whole lifetime, admit to any mistakes and not blame someone else for it? Ever?
OP, no more new thread making for you. You need to read/learn, this isn't facebook, we don't spoon feed. Literally a decade worth of threads with terrible begi experiences all over this forum. No one's gonna compile them all for you.
Like seriously. Ever.
Also, has anyone ever heard Stephanie ever, in her whole lifetime, admit to any mistakes and not blame someone else for it? Ever?
OP, no more new thread making for you. You need to read/learn, this isn't facebook, we don't spoon feed. Literally a decade worth of threads with terrible begi experiences all over this forum. No one's gonna compile them all for you.
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10-12-2017, 05:44 PM
#19
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I believe there is some provision for vendors to be able to update their kits with minor revisions without needing to re-certify the whole thing. For example, the 2-injector throttle body setup had some fuel consistency issues, so they updated it to a 4-injector setup (bungs welded into the intake manifold, new fuel rail) and I successfully smogged it under that EO. This wasn't a random smog guy either, the first 4 or 5 shops I went to wouldn't touch the car, so I wound up smogging it at a referee station.
I have no idea if substituting an Xede for a Link is fully legit under the rules, but it's possible. If you've got a 49-state car, then the BEGI kit is probably the closest thing you'll find to a CARB-legal turbo kit.
So after that you have the other BEGI issues to consider. The experiences of many people on this forum (including myself) is that if you order a kit from BEGI you should expect it to be late, incomplete, poorly fitting (to the point of needing a grinder to get every single hard part to fit), and require warranty replacement of numerous components.
--Ian
I have no idea if substituting an Xede for a Link is fully legit under the rules, but it's possible. If you've got a 49-state car, then the BEGI kit is probably the closest thing you'll find to a CARB-legal turbo kit.
So after that you have the other BEGI issues to consider. The experiences of many people on this forum (including myself) is that if you order a kit from BEGI you should expect it to be late, incomplete, poorly fitting (to the point of needing a grinder to get every single hard part to fit), and require warranty replacement of numerous components.
--Ian
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