2015 NASA Eastern Championships at VIR
09-08-2015, 11:52 PM
#21
Yep, only 3 in PTD. Qualified on pole easily but chose not to run the qual races to save my car.
Was in the lead a couple corners in to the race and was about 20 car lengths in front by the time we got to the backstraight. The passat has 100 more hp than me and was about 20 car lengths in front by the time we got to the braking zone for 14 yet I still out broke him and he went off in the next corner allowing me to easily check out and cruise before I had a CAS failure just like I did in the qual race at Mazda Raceway. Bummer
TT was another let down. My fastest lap of a 2:10.3 was a second faster than the second place guy and current track record holder (9.4) in his e36m3. However I was once again screwed by the notorious MCE dyno...
Keep in mind I was on this same exact dyno at Mazda Raceway one month ago and the car has not been touched since other than to fix bodywork and re-align. It even still has the same security tape installed from Laguna. At Laguna it made 154/155 on 5 of 6 pulls. The last pull made 160.49 out if nowhere and was a completely differently shaped graph.
Anyways, I decided to play it safe and class the car at 166 ( 11/12hp more than what I know it makes and what it made on this same dyno one month ago).
The first pull was 158, second was 161, third was 166.67 and each of the graphs are a completely different shape once again, as if it where 3 different cars on the dyno. Greg doesn't care, all he sees is the numbers and was completely unwilling to use logic or reason. He is on a witch hunt for me as confirmed by other officials.
My car is dead nuts consistent on every dyno it has ever been on other than the MCE.
He would not allow me to put it on the other dyno to prove it.
Unbelievable
Was in the lead a couple corners in to the race and was about 20 car lengths in front by the time we got to the backstraight. The passat has 100 more hp than me and was about 20 car lengths in front by the time we got to the braking zone for 14 yet I still out broke him and he went off in the next corner allowing me to easily check out and cruise before I had a CAS failure just like I did in the qual race at Mazda Raceway. Bummer
TT was another let down. My fastest lap of a 2:10.3 was a second faster than the second place guy and current track record holder (9.4) in his e36m3. However I was once again screwed by the notorious MCE dyno...
Keep in mind I was on this same exact dyno at Mazda Raceway one month ago and the car has not been touched since other than to fix bodywork and re-align. It even still has the same security tape installed from Laguna. At Laguna it made 154/155 on 5 of 6 pulls. The last pull made 160.49 out if nowhere and was a completely differently shaped graph.
Anyways, I decided to play it safe and class the car at 166 ( 11/12hp more than what I know it makes and what it made on this same dyno one month ago).
The first pull was 158, second was 161, third was 166.67 and each of the graphs are a completely different shape once again, as if it where 3 different cars on the dyno. Greg doesn't care, all he sees is the numbers and was completely unwilling to use logic or reason. He is on a witch hunt for me as confirmed by other officials.
My car is dead nuts consistent on every dyno it has ever been on other than the MCE.
He would not allow me to put it on the other dyno to prove it.
Unbelievable
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...psydjidd2v.jpg
Reply
0
0
09-09-2015, 04:12 PM
#25
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 18,642
Total Cats: 1,866
<p>
</p><p>Thats fucked</p>
I also figured out this morning, after looking through the TT rulebook, that I should not have been stripped of my win. I should have only been issued a procedural violation and 1 penalty point for being less than one HP over my limit. Since I only use 16 points, that gives me 17 points and still legal for TTD. I would be dq'ed from the session prior to the procedural violation only. I had a 2:10.4 in TT session2 on Saturday that should have stood
Reply
0
0
09-10-2015, 09:46 PM
#27
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 5
Thanks all. This was a good event. Apart from Eric's troubles, and a ridiculously long first Time Trials Meeting, I feel this was one of the best/smoothest run NASA champ events that I've been to, and that's dating back to 2011. They just need to bring back the speedcast coverage, lol. Doesn't feel like a national level event without it...
Fair bit of mechanical troubles in PT this year, as mentioned. That I can think of -> A blown motor, a broken header, misfires on a couple different cars, bad coil pack, CAS failure, alternator wiring failure, blown 5th gear. I was lucky and somehow my car ran great all weekend.
I HAD DYNO TROUBLE. Not with the hp numbers though! Dyno-on-the-go has part of the dyno trailer open in the center (unlike MCE). I didn't realize this. So Wednesday evening I go to get my car checked for hp and I'm up on top of the dyno, walking around to the front of the car in hook up the RPM pickup...and I kinda definitely step through into nothing. Instinctively grabbed my miata's radiator with my left hand to 'catch' myself and my body weight jerked my shoulder out of it's socket, dislocated. Spend 6-7 hours in the waiting room of the ER before the doctor saw me. By that point, from the pain/stiffness, I was not expecting to be able to drive at all for the championships. Fortunately I was wrong, and despite some minor discomfort was able to drive all weekend.
The PTE dyno read a bit higher than my local dyno in Michigan. I had showed up without the air dam, and taking 3 exhaust points. But this exhaust put me too close for comfort on my calculated adjusted power to weight ratio. I opted to install my stock exhaust that makes 6hp less, and also install the air dam. Interesting tidbit, top speed at VIR is identical for both setups, which leads me to believe the airdam is worth a very significant amount of drag reduction. Apparently it is also worth some front downforce, as my car was pretty loose/snappy all weekend, especially in the high speed sections.
NASA did a good job with tech this year. Most cars were gone over pretty thoroughly and inspected for compliance, plus dyno checks. NASA has switched from traqmate to AIM Solo's for performing on-track comparisons between cars. This was used as an additional check to dyno to verify that cars are performing as expected on the track itself. Some of this data was shared with us, and speeds down the back straight were all within 1mph at two different measurment locations for the three cars that were instrumented during that race.
Jason Fitzpatrick (PTD Volkswagon) hosted an all-PT cookout/party on Saturday night. This was awesome, props to Jason for putting that together.
It was nice to meet the other PT competitors and to finally put faces to names!
Also, VIR is a superb facility. Wish I would have had more time to explore and spectate - guess I'll need to come back to visit someday.
My fastest times of the weekend were a 2:14.8 in TTE and a 2:14.9 in the PTE championship race. TTE vid below. I might eventually put together some race highlights, if I get motivated. Heck, I haven't even unloaded my race car from the trailer yet. It may just stay there until the next event at Autobahn Country Club next weekend!
-Jason
Also, thanks to MazdaMotorsports for their support and for hosting a luncheon, free apparel. Hoosier. Winding Road Racing.
Fair bit of mechanical troubles in PT this year, as mentioned. That I can think of -> A blown motor, a broken header, misfires on a couple different cars, bad coil pack, CAS failure, alternator wiring failure, blown 5th gear. I was lucky and somehow my car ran great all weekend.
I HAD DYNO TROUBLE. Not with the hp numbers though! Dyno-on-the-go has part of the dyno trailer open in the center (unlike MCE). I didn't realize this. So Wednesday evening I go to get my car checked for hp and I'm up on top of the dyno, walking around to the front of the car in hook up the RPM pickup...and I kinda definitely step through into nothing. Instinctively grabbed my miata's radiator with my left hand to 'catch' myself and my body weight jerked my shoulder out of it's socket, dislocated. Spend 6-7 hours in the waiting room of the ER before the doctor saw me. By that point, from the pain/stiffness, I was not expecting to be able to drive at all for the championships. Fortunately I was wrong, and despite some minor discomfort was able to drive all weekend.
The PTE dyno read a bit higher than my local dyno in Michigan. I had showed up without the air dam, and taking 3 exhaust points. But this exhaust put me too close for comfort on my calculated adjusted power to weight ratio. I opted to install my stock exhaust that makes 6hp less, and also install the air dam. Interesting tidbit, top speed at VIR is identical for both setups, which leads me to believe the airdam is worth a very significant amount of drag reduction. Apparently it is also worth some front downforce, as my car was pretty loose/snappy all weekend, especially in the high speed sections.
NASA did a good job with tech this year. Most cars were gone over pretty thoroughly and inspected for compliance, plus dyno checks. NASA has switched from traqmate to AIM Solo's for performing on-track comparisons between cars. This was used as an additional check to dyno to verify that cars are performing as expected on the track itself. Some of this data was shared with us, and speeds down the back straight were all within 1mph at two different measurment locations for the three cars that were instrumented during that race.
Jason Fitzpatrick (PTD Volkswagon) hosted an all-PT cookout/party on Saturday night. This was awesome, props to Jason for putting that together.
It was nice to meet the other PT competitors and to finally put faces to names!
Also, VIR is a superb facility. Wish I would have had more time to explore and spectate - guess I'll need to come back to visit someday.
My fastest times of the weekend were a 2:14.8 in TTE and a 2:14.9 in the PTE championship race. TTE vid below. I might eventually put together some race highlights, if I get motivated. Heck, I haven't even unloaded my race car from the trailer yet. It may just stay there until the next event at Autobahn Country Club next weekend!
-Jason
Also, thanks to MazdaMotorsports for their support and for hosting a luncheon, free apparel. Hoosier. Winding Road Racing.
Last edited by speedengineer; 09-10-2015 at 09:59 PM.
Reply
0
0
09-11-2015, 09:39 AM
#29
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 5
Are most cars flat through there?
Reply
0
0
09-11-2015, 09:44 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 923
Total Cats: 67
Someone here did some computational analytics on the Miata and aero. I'm just remembering something from a few years ago, but a bone stock Miata produces close to 50lbs of lift at 100mph. Adding the R package dam lowered the c/d and produced 30lbs of downforce.
I'll try to find it, it was really interesting.
I'll try to find it, it was really interesting.
Reply
0
0
09-11-2015, 10:12 AM
#31
<p>
</p><p> </p><p>I think so. Miatas normally are and I find a lot of the aero cars are flat through there. Hell even the SC300 is flat through there, but its about 5-6 mph slower though.</p><p> </p><p>The right hander is a bit tougher. Spec miata is flat, but my miata tends to wash out too much for comfort. I am not sure about other cars.</p>
Stock exhaust is so quite! Can't tell much from the video. I pulled up data...flat until T9 (the last right hander). Car was doing 114-115mph into there, and I would breath off the throttle. If the car wouldn't have been so twitchy/loose it likely could have been flat. Are most cars flat through there?
Reply
0
0
09-11-2015, 10:29 AM
#32
Reply
0
0
09-11-2015, 10:29 AM
#33
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 5
Someone here did some computational analytics on the Miata and aero. I'm just remembering something from a few years ago, but a bone stock Miata produces close to 50lbs of lift at 100mph. Adding the R package dam lowered the c/d and produced 30lbs of downforce.
I'll try to find it, it was really interesting.
I'll try to find it, it was really interesting.
I read that when they published it. Did not buy it, as the results show an absolutely huge difference in cd and cl numbers. However, after running the real measurements with and without airdam last weekend, their difference in cd values isn't really too far off. My simulations show about a 0.06 reduction in cd to match measured speeds, they predicted a 0.10 reduction.
I have no way to measure the lift effect. But subjectively it did make a difference.
Reply
0
0
09-11-2015, 10:32 AM
#34
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 5
I've never gotten loose in 9 like you showed us unless I really tried to pinch it over to the right. But I've never exited that fast. Probably just too much steering input making me slow. What speed were you entering them at the bottom? If you just want to send me your AIM files thats fine.
Reply
0
0
09-11-2015, 10:43 AM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 923
Total Cats: 67
Yup - it was these guys -> https://hanchagroup.wordpress.com/20...esign-is-best/
I read that when they published it. Did not buy it, as the results show an absolutely huge difference in cd and cl numbers. However, after running the real measurements with and without airdam last weekend, their difference in cd values isn't really too far off. My simulations show about a 0.06 reduction in cd to match measured speeds, they predicted a 0.10 reduction.
I have no way to measure the lift effect. But subjectively it did make a difference.
I read that when they published it. Did not buy it, as the results show an absolutely huge difference in cd and cl numbers. However, after running the real measurements with and without airdam last weekend, their difference in cd values isn't really too far off. My simulations show about a 0.06 reduction in cd to match measured speeds, they predicted a 0.10 reduction.
I have no way to measure the lift effect. But subjectively it did make a difference.
Thanks for finding that again.
Reply
0
0
09-11-2015, 12:23 PM
#36
Someone here did some computational analytics on the Miata and aero. I'm just remembering something from a few years ago, but a bone stock Miata produces close to 50lbs of lift at 100mph. Adding the R package dam lowered the c/d and produced 30lbs of downforce.
I'll try to find it, it was really interesting.
I'll try to find it, it was really interesting.
Reply
0
0
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Braineack
Cars for sale/trade
3
09-04-2015 02:12 PM
