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Old 08-09-2011, 03:47 PM   #1
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Default ARTech welded steering pinion compared to another

A guy from Austin posed these pictures of his de-powered rack from a shop that does lots of spec Miata stuff.
Abe's work:

The other shop:




I don't think I'd get in the car with that steering rack. It looks like the welds are too small, no penetration, and very little weld "bridging" the two pieces together.
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ARTech welded steering pinion compared to another-218064_10100156321956580_23911356_47477636_6333027_n.jpg   ARTech welded steering pinion compared to another-sdc10403.jpg   ARTech welded steering pinion compared to another-sdc10407.jpg   ARTech welded steering pinion compared to another-sdc10415.jpg   ARTech welded steering pinion compared to another-sdc10416.jpg  

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Old 08-09-2011, 03:52 PM   #2
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On second thought, the pinion probably won't fatally break, but the welds will and the spline will stay together. It's still a Helen Keller weld and I wouldn't pay a cent for work like that.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:34 PM   #3
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Thats so dumb of that shop. They're obviously mig welds which would have taken about 2 seconds longer to make them longer, better welds.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:35 PM   #4
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I thought the tackweld pics were just halfway through the process.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:37 PM   #5
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Maybe I dont understand how power steering works correctly, but isn't that just the quill shaft? I didn't think you even technically had to have that welded to de-power a rack; it just makes the steering tighter.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:41 PM   #6
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Either pinion is more than acceptable.

First of all, the twist shaft core that activates the power steering spool is still active and in place. Centering the two main pieces, aligning them, etc. You will never lose steering since it is present.

And secondly you can see that both shops welded into the spline zone. Even if the weld(s) cracked all the way through there would still be no spline movement. Since they are now filled with material.

Beautiful welds are nice to behold. Like on some of those polished mufflers. Or on the Ariel Atom frame.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:46 PM   #7
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On further thought, perhaps the "shitty welds" were worried about warping the steering shaft? I know i'd want to be careful with heat in that zone.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:48 PM   #8
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I changed my mind a little bit. Those tacks look pretty substantial. It would take a lot of force to break one of those because there are four tacks. Of course, abes is of much higher quality, but I doubt those welds will break
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:49 PM   #9
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It looks bad in the pic, but I don't think there's any real problem. Should be more than enough weld.

Instead of a full depower, one of the things I'm going to try on my car over the winter is removing vanes from the power steering pump. I want to lessen the assist (and load) of the system, but not fully eliminate it.

13 hr enduro - p/s = fail
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
It looks bad in the pic, but I don't think there's any real problem. Should be more than enough weld.

Instead of a full depower, one of the things I'm going to try on my car over the winter is removing vanes from the power steering pump. I want to lessen the assist (and load) of the system, but not fully eliminate it.

13 hr enduro - p/s = fail
I was pleasantly surprised how reasonable the steering effort is on a fully depowered / welded rack. It is way lower than a looped line quickie.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:02 PM   #11
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The welds on mine look shittier than that , but we did it under the car on a lift, and didnt clean it for ****. It gets the job done. I only welded it to take any play out of it.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:02 PM   #12
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For those of you who say it's "OK", you're probably right. This is the difference in a part that lasts forever and a part that lasts 5-years. Remember, I'm the guy who doesn't work on his track toy when globetrotting and setting records.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:36 PM   #13
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Looks amateur, but I don't see why it wouldn't hold. It took Abe not even 5 minutes to TIG the pinion all the way around on the original.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwag View Post
Looks amateur, but I don't see why it wouldn't hold. It took Abe not even 5 minutes to TIG the pinion all the way around on the original.
You do shitty work anyway, so who cares? I'd never trust anything you built. lulz
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:54 PM   #15
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Maybe we could up the size of all the parts to perhaps double. And make them out of F1 / Mars Mission level material installed by ultimate ninja techs.

I love nice welds but this is just overkill based on not understanding how the pinion actually functions. A beautiful 360 TIG with before and after steps is probably 3 times stronger than the rest of the pinion or other steering parts from wheel to tie rod end. Sure it may only take five minutes. But it is no better than the 4 tack job also shown.

I know…lets all convert to 8 lug wheels. They are stronger!
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmarcy View Post
I love nice welds but this is just overkill based on not understanding how the pinion actually functions.
explain this statement, please.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:35 AM   #17
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Karl from ART did those welds on the pinion shown in hustler's 1st post, which is mine by the way. It's not going to fatally break... if anything it will just go back to having slop like the video below...

http://vimeo.com/15245486

If it breaks I'll just take it back out and take it to a better shop. Thankfully there are no more PS lines to disconnect... just 5 bolts.

MotoIQ Article on Depower

Also, you'll notice in this other photo that one of the welds is cracked...
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:06 AM   #18
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But, but, think of the weight savings! Gotta be at least 0.25g right there! :P
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwag View Post
explain this statement, please.
I bet one lap in my car would change his mind. You and I both have driven ghetto depowered cars, when you track mine at Hallett, you too will see the light. When Bond drove mine, I think his genetic legacy entered the excited state.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
When Bond drove mine, I think his genetic legacy entered the excited state.
qft.

That rack scares me, I have already stuffed one car in the wall due to steering problems. A good way to ruin your day, week, month, year.
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