Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Even at 140 runs they're still "fast" they're just not magic. They're still perfectly sufficient to win ssm locally. And there's no more national events until next year. I mean its not like I'm still not seeing nearly the same peak and sustained g numbers as when they were new, its just harder to hit those numbers.

mcfandango

iTrader: (1)

This is Leafy we are talking about here.

Personally, I'm not running tires that have had all the magic rubbed out of them.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

If you want to win SSM at a "local" around here....you better come on good tires.

My car finished 3rd at nationals.....and has finished 3rd at a few locals

FrankL

Rub the magic out for leafy. Make sure you use some math tho. Also, 140 run Hoosiers still allow him to beat cars on rs3s consistently.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Lol I'm still up against the SMFL national champion sometimes and the an Elise on hoosiers with aero, sometimes Jenna in Panda. Between the 4 of us we pretty much scared anything on street tires out of even making the attempt. And the tires on the car right now could probably still take top pax if the davis car broke and billy borrowed my car.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

So 140 run tires are fast enough for a dude driving a SSM car to occasionally win SMFL or SML at a local event.

I'll buy that.

That's totally why I don't run 140 run tires

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Ah, that girl put a solid midpack SSM time in with SMF car. And they've been running stickers at locals because they have more front tires than they know what to do with. Still calling that one good.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

SMFL ran second heat.....When it was dry. You are bench racing apples and bowling *****.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

But bowling ***** taste so good.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

We've had this conversation before. It's my opinion (and the opinion of people a hell of a lot faster than either of us) that you shouldn't set your car up on cap tires.

You are also smart enough to know that peak g's and sustained g's aren't the only factors in a tires performance on course.

I used to have my car set up for maximum tire wear. Within the last 2 months I have totally changed direction with literally every component of the suspension. The first time either Randall or I drove this setup was the Pro Finale. We had some growing pains there. But the car is much more boring to drive. ...and a hell of a lot faster. No more fighting the car...and more time to think and execute your plan.

I'll never change my car for junk tires (other than minor sway bar or shock adjustments)

Once Randall and I have more time to drive the new set up...I expect it to be significantly faster.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

I'm not really in car development right now, besides changing springs once I build the new arms. I need driver development. I just watch my videos and look at the easy seconds I could pickup if I sucked less. I just have a setup that works well on crap tires and I know how it reacts to stickers so I have a plan, and normally when I take a completely blind stab at setup I come out satisfied.

Sustained and peak g's are the only factor in a tires performance (well and having enough heat capacity to make it to the end of the day without overheating), if it can still hit them then its still sticky enough, the max grip plateau is just very narrow once they've gotten here. In other words they get harder and harder to drive fast as they get old but can still be fast, perfect driver development tires.

Especially on fresh tires, my car drives like its a well setup fwd, its quite boring, the rear of the car never dances and it pushes on throttle with the wheels turned. Its very odd.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

Really? Sustained and peak g's are all that matters. I've learned something.

I always thought transitional stability had something to do with it. (Rarely will you hit max g's in a slalom).

Oddly enough, my car is significantly faster on 8 run tires than it is on 60 run tires.....but I see the same peak and sustained numbers.


Guess it's voodoo.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Do you see the same peak and sustained gs in every corner? Between the two sets? Probably not. But transitional grip comes right along with that grip vs slip angle graph and the top plateau getting narrower as the hoho gets older.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

Wait. If the peak plateau gets narrower......wouldn't then average g's be more important than peak numbers?

Speak in circles you do.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

No, cause if you're doing it right you're driving with the car on the plateau every time you're in a corner which is where your sustained g's come from.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

So if you are driving right. And your car is capable of 1.8 peak gs. You should be at 1.8gs everywhere.

You are a wealth of knowledge.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

No, peak gs run on a completely different set of mechanics than sustained gs. Doesnt matter how perfect you take a turn you cant sustain your peak g numbers.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

This is why autocrossing is fun, amirite?

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Yes, arguing on the internet is really what its all about. How bout them street tires and floor mats.

FrankL

Pretty sure our peak G's were when the tire was turning accelerating and stopping at the simultaneous time of hitting a bump bigger than the BM cars.