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Old 01-13-2015, 10:37 PM   #1
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Default Best brakes for Miata uprights?

I am building another Locost with Toyota 2JZ motor, and need to decide uprights and spindles soon. I am familiar with Wilwood brakes and I have a feeling that this car will need big ones. The owners of big brake kits, educate me with pro's and con's of the Miata package. The alternative uprights and spindles would be Mustang. s2000, corvette. But I know what to do geometry wise with Miata, availability is good, and I have basic spares. I would not mind having fifth bolt and beefier bearings, but so far it hasn't been a problem.
Road race is probably the hardest thing these brakes will have to endure, hillclimbs being shorter are easier on brakes.

If you are interested of the project check out

http://2jzlocost.wordpress.com

Thank you for your suggestions.

Last edited by hrk; 01-16-2015 at 12:44 AM. Reason: url, thanks soviet
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:42 AM   #2
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A member here has commissioned us to build him a BBK that hasn't been seen on a Miata yet. Depending on what wheel you want to use (15s depending on size/offset and most 16s), it may fit your project as well. I don't want to say much more in public, but PM/email me for details.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:49 AM   #3
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Didnt bundy determine that you could fit mini cooper brakes on the front of the car pretty easily that gives you the stiffer dynapros in 11.75 and 12.19 fitment in the front. In the rear anything off the shelf tops out at the same size as sport brakes, but someone does sell a 2 piece rotor for sport rear brakes that uses some 8 bolt pattern so maybe larger brakes can be an option there with different brackets.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Didnt bundy determine that you could fit mini cooper brakes on the front of the car pretty easily that gives you the stiffer dynapros in 11.75 and 12.19 fitment in the front.
No...

Quote:
In the rear anything off the shelf tops out at the same size as sport brakes,
...no...

Quote:
but someone does sell a 2 piece rotor for sport rear brakes that uses some 8 bolt pattern so maybe larger brakes can be an option there with different brackets.
...no.
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:29 PM   #5
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whats the cross weight?
tire size?
compound?
Goal for horse power?
what kind of master cylinder are you planning on running, oe? - from what car? or Dual master cylinder pedal?


my qualifications - https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...estions-81577/

Last edited by OGRacing; 01-14-2015 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 01-14-2015, 03:04 PM   #6
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OGRacing,

The car is not done yet,
- based on driveline and existing experience gross weight will be 1700-1900 lbs in running condition.
- Tire size will dictate wheel size. I like to get used tires for local races. Formula Enterprise uses 13" x 10 hoosiers in the rear, and they are cheap and plentiful to run for a weekend, but I haven't found brakes which would fit inside those wheels. Next common slicks would be 15" and this may limit brakes too. Compound softest possible for short run hillclimbs.
-hp goal, 700 should be close from 2JZ single turbo.
-dual master assembly, cylinder diameter selection based on brake caliber needs.

The goal is to keep wear item costs down, tires, brake pads, balljoints, bearings and have available parts in the future.

Thanks
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Old 01-14-2015, 03:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrk View Post
OGRacing,

The car is not done yet,
- based on driveline and existing experience gross weight will be 1700-1900 lbs in running condition.
- Tire size will dictate wheel size. I like to get used tires for local races. Formula Enterprise uses 13" x 10 hoosiers in the rear, and they are cheap and plentiful to run for a weekend, but I haven't found brakes which would fit inside those wheels. Next common slicks would be 15" and this may limit brakes too. Compound softest possible for short run hillclimbs.
-hp goal, 700 should be close from 2JZ single turbo.
-dual master assembly, cylinder diameter selection based on brake caliber needs.

The goal is to keep wear item costs down, tires, brake pads, balljoints, bearings and have available parts in the future.

Thanks
FYI we can squeeze 13" rotors inside 15" steel wheels for nascar. that wont be cheap or what you'll need but it can be done. what size are the 15" take offs? do you have any plans on running aero? if so how much?
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Old 01-14-2015, 03:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
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- based on driveline and existing experience gross weight will be 1700-1900 lbs in running condition.
-hp goal, 700 should be close from 2JZ single turbo.
That's a scary power to weight ratio. Sounds like a blast.

Is this car for yourself or building it for a customer? I'm curious how much a project like this costs.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:23 PM   #9
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Well, racing brake does make a 2 piece rotor for the rear. I don't know about a larger rotor being possible. Any it depends on your opinion of racing brake which seems to be a mixed bag.

Someone needs to be completely dumb and create a carbon rotor that will fit under 15 inch wheels. unless maybe such a thing exists and I don't know about it?
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:17 PM   #10
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I would choose suspension based on the merits of the design not available brake packages. The Miata double wishbone is gonna be tough to beat in a 1,700lbs car.

Even with a 700whp motor the current 11.75" offerings should satisfy your needs in a 1,700-1,900lb chassis. Who knows what Sav has up his sleeve. That could be the excess you're looking for.

Sounds like a fun project!
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Old 01-15-2015, 06:08 AM   #11
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Someone needs to be completely dumb and create a carbon rotor that will fit under 15 inch wheels. unless maybe such a thing exists and I don't know about it?
Only 280mm but...
http://www.frenocarbon.com/files/Price%20List.pdf
Thick discs will move rotor center outwards (steering knuckle in the way).
Unsure if their 21mm rotor would work up front.

Carbon discs are hard(er) to find info on, since most list them consulting items.
There are many smaller rotors in use on formula cars, but then we are talking different uprights, bearing packages etc.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
Only 280mm but...
http://www.frenocarbon.com/files/Price%20List.pdf
Thick discs will move rotor center outwards (steering knuckle in the way).
Unsure if their 21mm rotor would work up front.

Carbon discs are hard(er) to find info on, since most list them consulting items.
There are many smaller rotors in use on formula cars, but then we are talking different uprights, bearing packages etc.
I would avoid a carbon ceramic rotor. Miata sized rotors are already behind when teamed up to a high amount of horsepower. unfortunately a carbon ceramic rotor will produce less TQ when compared to the same diameter iron rotor. the carbon ceramics do cool exponentially faster, and their life is much longer. if you where dead set on running carbon ceramic rotors i would recommend a 15-25% larger rotor based upon application to give you similar performance.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:54 AM   #13
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We should have some pics of a BBK using lotus calipers and their...11.5"(?) rotors soon. If that helps anyone.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
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No...



...no...



...no.
I don't understand what problem you guys have with the Mini cooper kit I have been running since 2006.

Nobody yet has come out with an aftermarket production kit yet that is better for a High hp and heavy miata that easily fits in most commonly used 15" miata wheels.

Looks like V8R maybe finally coppied it by using dynapro radials however.

Dynalite calipers suck compared to the Dynapro Radials and you get 50% longer pad life via thicker pads.
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Old 01-15-2015, 03:31 PM   #15
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V8R is currently using Dynapro lug mount calipers on their kits. Both V8R and one other company I know of are working on a Dynapro radial mount kit in 2015, but radial vs. lug isn't a significant difference.

-Ryan
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Old 01-15-2015, 03:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
V8R is currently using Dynapro lug mount calipers on their kits. Both V8R and one other company I know of are working on a Dynapro radial mount kit in 2015, but radial vs. lug isn't a significant difference.

-Ryan
I theory the radial mounted will be stiffer since the studs clamping them to the bracket should flex less than the ears of a lug mount. In reality if your brackets are the same material and ~thickness as the ears its probably not as much of a difference as it could be.
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:16 PM   #17
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Exactly
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:34 PM   #18
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nobody is really hitting on the point of how to slow a 1500lbs 500-800hp vehicle..
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
nobody is really hitting on the point of how to slow a 1500lbs 500-800hp vehicle..
Tire walls
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:30 PM   #20
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^bazinga
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