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Bigger better brake swap

 
Old 03-05-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
As someone who endurance races a ecotec swapped Miata, I'd say you're on the right track looking into larger brakes and avoiding Wilwoods, I'd highly suggest doing the same, especially if you don't want to replace the calipers every year or so.
Just curious, what was the failure mode of the Wildwood calipers? I've run mine for three track days now, they have been brilliant and the PFC 97 pads barely show any wear at all.
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Schroedinger View Post
Just curious, what was the failure mode of the Wildwood calipers? I've run mine for three track days now, they have been brilliant and the PFC 97 pads barely show any wear at all.
I donít have first hand experience but apparently when used hard continually for 2-3hr stints in a 16-24hr race they leak. The seals must cook or something. Again this over long abusive use not 20-30 minute session with an hour to cool down. Also on cars with more then 140hp and more like 180-250hp and in the 2100-2500lb range.
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Old 03-05-2019, 12:08 PM
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The pistons stop retracting when swapping worn pads for new, and even sitting still, you can push hard on the brakes and watch the caliper flex open from the force of the pads.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:07 PM
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We've had the same experience with Wilwoods on the enduro car. They are very sensitive to temperature but then again, we've had some fail right out of the box too...
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:23 PM
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Which Wilwoods? IiRC Dynalites are a much weaker caliper built more for light autocross and street driving. There are even Dynapro STs that have poly pistons in them for reduced thermal transfer if heat is the killer.
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Old 03-05-2019, 03:14 PM
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Zero reliability issues with the Superlites we use here. I have seen occasional issues with the Dynalites/Dynapros, but I've also seen them go 25 hours straight, so
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:03 PM
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We were running the Dynapros with their low HT style "Thermlock" pistons - those do a LOT better than the standard pistons
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Old 03-05-2019, 07:00 PM
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I knew this was going to happen..... oem style calipers are highly reliable WILL take the abuse at a fraction of the cost (read $200 for all 4 from rock auto). I have already bought that calipers and rotors. Iím looking for someone with experience with racing the sport brakes.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:37 AM
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Ran Sport brakes for 3 years in WRL with 130ish hp @ ~2250 lbs.. Had lots of trouble with the sliding action. New, rebuilt, etc. didn't seem to matter. Seemed like we were always dragging a caliper. Sport brakes have a diminished pad choice. ST43's have the life you are looking for. Skip G-LOC for enduros.
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ILoveOffRamps View Post
Ran Sport brakes for 3 years in WRL with 130ish hp @ ~2250 lbs.. Had lots of trouble with the sliding action. New, rebuilt, etc. didn't seem to matter. Seemed like we were always dragging a caliper. Sport brakes have a diminished pad choice. ST43's have the life you are looking for. Skip G-LOC for enduros.
Thanks for the info! I just ordered some ST43ís (front and rear) bummer to hear about the crappy sliding action. What year Miata were you running? What brake booster, MC, and proportioning valve? Also how long would a set of pads last?
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:14 PM
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ST43s are great if you want a pad to last, and you do not care about anything else. Initial bite? Poor. Modulation? Very poor. Release? Poor. Rotor wear? Horrific. They are like stepping on someone else's brake pedal and feeling your own car slow down, that's how little feedback they provide. They will probably last 16hrs, though.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:54 PM
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Our most recent enduro effort last weekend ran GLoc R14 and R8 for 24 hours on 1 set of pads, in OEM Sport Brakes. LuckyDog 24hr at Buttonwillow in a bp4w swapped NA.

Catch-all, anecdotal "Skip XXX for XXX usage" is no favor to anybody.
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:20 AM
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Glocs definitely feel better on all fronts, but we couldn't get a set to go longer than ~16 hours on sport brakes or on the V8R Stoptech kit, thought admittedly the V8R has less pad volume compared to sports. I haven't met anyone down here that can get the Glocs to last. Maybe it's that California air.

You are correct Dan, so I'll change my statement. We are moving on from Gloc's after trying them for ~3 years. Loved the feel but couldn't justify the cost to wear rate.
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:13 AM
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Maybe it is just the track length or Midwest air but on a ďbuiltĒ BP4W motor (01 pistons, shaved head, advanced timing, rx7 AFM, Vics working) we could get a set of HAWK DTC 60/30 on 1.6 brakes to last about 25-26 hour with 200tw tires.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cj9694 View Post
Maybe it is just the track length or Midwest air but on a ďbuiltĒ BP4W motor (01 pistons, shaved head, advanced timing, rx7 AFM, Vics working) we could get a set of HAWK DTC 60/30 on 1.6 brakes to last about 25-26 hour with 200tw tires.
Apologies for the aside, but were/are you running a built BP4W with the stock 1.6 management/AFM??
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by themonkeyman View Post
Apologies for the aside, but were/are you running a built BP4W with the stock 1.6 management/AFM??
oh yeah, piece of cake! Itís lemons so running a mega squirt is kinda frowned upon. Last race we finished top 5. Sure I was probably leaving more power on the table but that doesnít matter now. I made the mistake of using eBay pistons in the rebuild and #1 ripped apart (long story... another lemons team said that have run them for 9 races without issue) should have bought oem pistons. Anyway, weíre upgrading to something designed in this decade 2.4 Chevy ecotec.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:42 AM
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Would there be an advantage to putting together a kit with thicker rotors (1.25") instead of the lil ones (0.81") that we all use?
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Adamsm View Post
Would there be an advantage to putting together a kit with thicker rotors (1.25") instead of the lil ones (0.81") that we all use?
Could be wrong but rotor life never really seems to be a big issue, I would think a thicker rotor would only reduce pad volume capacity.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by themonkeyman View Post
Could be wrong but rotor life never really seems to be a big issue, I would think a thicker rotor would only reduce pad volume capacity.
im of the opinion that you donít spend more then $30 on a rotor and then throw them away when they are spent. Was using solid and plain vented brembo rotors ($30 each). They would usually make it through two sets of pads before they showed signs of micro cracking or had funky wear. So my experience is that race pads just eat rotors and itís part of the expense of racing NBD.

Savington, you are quick to **** all over the Ray pads but offer up no good or ďbetterĒ experience otherwise. Not here to pick a fight, just here to get some data points.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:10 AM
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My team has been running Raybestos ST42 for the last 2 years and couldn't be happier. I was a 10yr carbotech user (track days, TT, and sprint racing) before this but they were wearing way too fast for enduros. I haven't tried ST43 yet and have heard mixed reviews about the feel and modulation, but I could barely even tell we'd switched to a new pad the first time we ran the ST42. Pad life is at least double the carbotechs we were using.
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