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Bigger better brake swap

 
Old 03-11-2019, 08:23 AM
  #41  
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Weíve been running the ST43ís as well for several years and like them in the dry. I would also like to hear Savingtons recommendations regarding endurance pads. He has poo-pooíed them when I mentioned them as well. We are running stock non-sport brakes and are right at the limit for the capacity of this system. In fact Iíd like to hear everyoneís opinion on pads for endurance cars. There are so many choices and nobody can try them all. But maybe by combining our experiences, we can get get a better feel for the different options out there.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:09 AM
  #42  
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Brake pad opinions are like ********, everyone's got one.

That being said, here's my opinion: We love the ST43s in the hot/dry as long a your drivers are experienced. However the 42s are absolutely necessary in the cold/wet as 43s without the right amount of heat in them lose a lot of modulation. Now keep in mind on a 11.75" BBK you might cross the threshold as well where you won't maintain enough heat in the 43s running super 200 street tires (RS4s) but on Hoosiers they are perfect.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by slammed200 View Post
Brake pad opinions are like ********, everyone's got one.

That being said, here's my opinion: We love the ST43s in the hot/dry as long a your drivers are experienced. However the 42s are absolutely necessary in the cold/wet as 43s without the right amount of heat in them lose a lot of modulation. Now keep in mind on a 11.75" BBK you might cross the threshold as well where you won't maintain enough heat in the 43s running super 200 street tires (RS4s) but on Hoosiers they are perfect.
Justin? That you?
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Old 03-11-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fmcokc View Post
Justin? That you?
Heyo Chris!
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Old 03-11-2019, 01:39 PM
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My experience with the ST43 is mostly limited to a ~120whp 1.8L on stock 1.8L brakes and a Super200 tire (225 Rival-S 1.0 or 205 RE71Rs). I personally have something like 12hrs of seat time in that car with those pads. It was a Chump car and the same set of pads would go 24+ hours with ease. Maybe it was the wrong application and the pads weren't hot enough as Justin says, but they are by far the worst feeling pad I've ever experienced. I never complained because I am good enough to drive around the poor pedal feel, and I knew it was faster than changing pads, but I would never willingly use that pad in an application where I actually cared about how the car drove.

I also used them 10+ years ago in Theseus, before it had wings and a splitter and internet fame, but I don't remember what I thought of them back then.

I personally use DTC-60s, mostly out of sheer force of habit. It seems to be popular to **** on that pad, but I have 10+ years of experience on that pad and it's always served me well. I have never run the DTC-60 in an enduro longer than 4hrs, though, so the data is not worth much. The 949Racing T25 cars all used Carbotechs in with a scheduled pad stop shortly after midnight for each car.

If an ST43 will go 24hrs, then great, but if they only last 19 and you're going to swap pads anyway, I would try just about anything and everything (PFC97, PFC01, all the various Cobalt compounds, DTC-60s, G-LOC R12 or R14s, etc) in search of something that would get past the 12hr mark safely before I committed to that pad. The ST43 is bad enough IMO that you risk flatspotting tires if the drivers are not accustomed to them.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:34 PM
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The guys that I’ve heard raving hardest about the ST43 being amazing were SCCA guys who are forced to use undersized stock brakes on heavy cars with $10k engine builds making big power. They all had reviews along the lines of “couldn’t find any other pad that would last/not overheat on this car; switched to ST43 and all my problems went away. zomg best pad evar.”

You guys are probably onto something with the ST43 being a bad fit for a low power miata that can’t get the ST43 into its ideal temp range.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
The guys that Iíve heard raving hardest about the ST43 being amazing were SCCA guys who are forced to use undersized stock brakes on heavy cars with $10k engine builds making big power. They all had reviews along the lines of ďcouldnít find any other pad that would last/not overheat on this car; switched to ST43 and all my problems went away. zomg best pad evar.Ē

You guys are probably onto something with the ST43 being a bad fit for a low power miata that canít get the ST43 into its ideal temp range.
Thatís probably why Justin and I like the ST 43. Justin is running a V6 and Iím running a built and light 1.8. On slicks and stock brakes the ST 43ís are just over their limit and really starting to not be able to handle it. For the endurance races on RS4ís, they seem to be about perfect in the dry. We have run carbotech/Glocs in the past but they just seem to wear her out too quickly. Granted we havenít tried every compound so I donít know how some of the newer compounds work. I have raced on the hawk DTC 70 and 60 and Iíve not had any issues with them but they were on a car that I just arrived and drived. I have some experience with cobalt XR2 pads but I didnít like the rising rate of friction as they heat up.

We typically will only run a set of pads for one day for say an eight hour race. We will put a new set of pads on for the second day even if the first set of pads still has half a pad left. We are just not willing to risk a race for $140 set of pads. We tend to end up having a lot of half used pads. Last year in the 24 hour race, we planned on doing a pad swap at 14 hours. When we were making the swap, they looked almost brand new. We could have probably gone the full 24 hours on a set of pads.

Hey Justin, are you going to Barber next weekend?
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:41 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
My experience with the ST43 is mostly limited to a ~120whp 1.8L on stock 1.8L brakes and a Super200 tire (225 Rival-S 1.0 or 205 RE71Rs). I personally have something like 12hrs of seat time in that car with those pads. It was a Chump car and the same set of pads would go 24+ hours with ease. Maybe it was the wrong application and the pads weren't hot enough as Justin says, but they are by far the worst feeling pad I've ever experienced. I never complained because I am good enough to drive around the poor pedal feel, and I knew it was faster than changing pads, but I would never willingly use that pad in an application where I actually cared about how the car drove.

I also used them 10+ years ago in Theseus, before it had wings and a splitter and internet fame, but I don't remember what I thought of them back then.

I personally use DTC-60s, mostly out of sheer force of habit. It seems to be popular to **** on that pad, but I have 10+ years of experience on that pad and it's always served me well. I have never run the DTC-60 in an enduro longer than 4hrs, though, so the data is not worth much. The 949Racing T25 cars all used Carbotechs in with a scheduled pad stop shortly after midnight for each car.

If an ST43 will go 24hrs, then great, but if they only last 19 and you're going to swap pads anyway, I would try just about anything and everything (PFC97, PFC01, all the various Cobalt compounds, DTC-60s, G-LOC R12 or R14s, etc) in search of something that would get past the 12hr mark safely before I committed to that pad. The ST43 is bad enough IMO that you risk flatspotting tires if the drivers are not accustomed to them.
I really appreciate your explanation. Before now we were running DTC60's front and 30's on the rear with 1.6 brakes on a shaved head BP4W with 01+ pistons (stock 1.6 ecu, i know thats not ideal.... but lemons). They would last more then a fwe track days and one full 16hr lemons race. If I have the dtc 60s as an option, like you, I would be running them. In the DTC my options are the 50s and the 30s. I have heard mixed reviews on the 50s and I dont think the 30s would last in a dry race. We are moving to an Ecotec 2.4 and should be making 185hp and 190 tq at the wheels and 225 RS4s. I think Gingerman (the main track that we run) is probably slower top speeds and so are the corners which is why a set of pads last so long. I have already ordered the ST43s on recommendation from a few different people who run lemons with similarly fast cars but obviously vastly different brakes. Car is going to a track day prior to a lemons race so if we hate them, then we will try something else.

Maybe I can call Porterfield and ask them nicely to make me a set of 60's for the sport brakes (anyone interested in a group buy!?)
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:44 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by fmcokc View Post
Hey Justin, are you going to Barber next weekend?
Jeff will be at the WRL Barber race this weekend but I won't be able to make it.

The wife and I are taking a vacation to watch the Sebring races
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:01 PM
  #50  
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So an update..... I want to say that the ST43s are a good pad, I want to say that they modulate good enough and I want to say that you guys were wrong... but itís not true. The ST43s suck donkey *****. When cold they lock up like crazy and when they get to hot they are terrifying and they pulse and squeal. Yuck... they are going in the ďuse in case of emergency because you hate yourself binĒ. Tons of life left though for whatever thatís worth... Also the first round of reman rear rock auto raybestos sport calipers pretty much leaked out of the box (we got lucky and and a autozone 45 min away had a set). Iím working on getting back to DTC-60s. I called porterfield today and apologetically told them that the ST43s are terrible. So they are working on quoting me some DTC-60s for the sport brakes. The question is, what do I run for the rear pads? Just do 30s like before or 60s all around.
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