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Old 01-02-2015, 01:09 PM   #1
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Default Carbotech transfer layers

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the brakes section but here's the story. I've searched around and I know that the 1521's transfer layer isn't compatible with the XP's but is the 1521 compatible with the AX6's?

My original plan was to get the AX6's for the street and then buy XP8's for HPDE events like 949 recommends. I bought the AX6's but they squealed so loud on the street I couldn't stand it so I took precaution and machined my rotors and bought some 1521's... much more street friendly. So, now I have a barely touched set of AX6's sitting around and my 2nd HPDE event coming up soon. Can I just pad swap the AX6's with the 1521's at my next event just to get the use out of them? Or do I need to fork out the money for new rotors? Any advice is appreciated.
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Old 01-02-2015, 01:31 PM   #2
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Just call carbotech. They were friendly and happy to help last time I called.
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Old 01-02-2015, 01:44 PM   #3
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AFAIK the AX6 is an old compound that's not compatible with anything else in their lineup (1521 or XP).
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Old 01-02-2015, 01:55 PM   #4
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AFAIK the AX6 is an old compound that's not compatible with anything else in their lineup (1521 or XP).
That would be my luck.. since you're here you've got a PM coming your way.
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Old 01-02-2015, 02:57 PM   #5
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AX6 has a lot of metal in it, sort of like a super HPS+. The 1521 and XP have almost no metal, more Kevlar and ceramic. So 1521 and XP play well together. I recommend bedding with XP's if you plan to swap back and forth with 1521's. To be honest, most of my customers just run XP's on the street. Dusty as heck but they're both easy on rotors and stop well when cold.

The AX6 is really an autocross specific pad that I almost never recommend for anything but a dedicated AX car. Good low-mid temp torque but like the HPS, but they'll start to lose torque towards 1000 where the XP's are coming alive. IIRC, the HPS and HPS+ are rated for 850, the AX6 MOT (Max Operating Temp) is 1000.

If you are running stock brakes for autocross, 1521's are the way to go. Way better torque than OEM, twice the MOT and fantastic modulation. They also have ultra low rotor wear, almost no dust and are good stone cold.

My recommendation is 1521 and XP if you want to swap, or just run XP and live with the dust. I was switching between OEM and XP12's on my Z06 and just gave up. The OEM were just as dusty as the XP but with half the torque.
The street only daily NB2 has 1521's. Deviate, our NA8 HPDE car runs XP10/XP8 all the time with 11" Wilwoods up front and NA8 rears.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:49 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
AX6 has a lot of metal in it, sort of like a super HPS+. The 1521 and XP have almost no metal, more Kevlar and ceramic. So 1521 and XP play well together. I recommend bedding with XP's if you plan to swap back and forth with 1521's. To be honest, most of my customers just run XP's on the street. Dusty as heck but they're both easy on rotors and stop well when cold.

The AX6 is really an autocross specific pad that I almost never recommend for anything but a dedicated AX car. Good low-mid temp torque but like the HPS, but they'll start to lose torque towards 1000 where the XP's are coming alive. IIRC, the HPS and HPS+ are rated for 850, the AX6 MOT (Max Operating Temp) is 1000.

If you are running stock brakes for autocross, 1521's are the way to go. Way better torque than OEM, twice the MOT and fantastic modulation. They also have ultra low rotor wear, almost no dust and are good stone cold.

My recommendation is 1521 and XP if you want to swap, or just run XP and live with the dust. I was switching between OEM and XP12's on my Z06 and just gave up. The OEM were just as dusty as the XP but with half the torque.
The street only daily NB2 has 1521's. Deviate, our NA8 HPDE car runs XP10/XP8 all the time with 11" Wilwoods up front and NA8 rears.
Thanks Emilio, I just remember seeing your site saying that the 1521 transfer layer wasn't compatible with the XP's. From your post what I'm understanding is that it is okay to just pad swap between XP's and the 1521's. Are you saying that it is ONLY okay to do if I bed the rotors with the XP's first or just that it is recommended?

I honestly don't ever plan on autocrossing. I only bought the AX6's to be my street pads with the intention of pad swapping with the XP8's for HPDE days. They were just too freaking loud though!

Also, I'm running a TSE 11.75" kit w/ Dynapro6's in the front and the FM rear BBK w/ the Powerlites. New rear rotors would be cheap and I actually have a freshly turned set but to get a set of spare fronts to swap out is a little more clostly since I'd need a spare set of tophats too. I'd be nice to just be able to swap pads at the track instead of rotors and pads.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:58 PM   #7
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Turns out 1521's and XP are fine. I just find the XP's work better if you bed with them as opposed to bedding with 1521's. 1521's used by themselves don't need bedding anyway.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:05 PM   #8
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Turns out 1521's and XP are fine. I just find the XP's work better if you bed with them as opposed to bedding with 1521's. 1521's used by themselves don't need bedding anyway.
That's great news, thanks Emilio! I'm a VERY beginner track driver with only one HPDE event so far. I'll Be sure to start bedding my rotors with the XP's when I swap them out.
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Turns out 1521's and XP are fine. I just find the XP's work better if you bed with them as opposed to bedding with 1521's. 1521's used by themselves don't need bedding anyway.
Correct. That is what I did for a street/track pad setup on my Exige and it worked fantastic, and it's also what I'm doing on the Miata.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:38 PM   #10
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Correct. That is what I did for a street/track pad setup on my Exige and it worked fantastic, and it's also what I'm doing on the Miata.
After Emilio's reply I went straight to 949racing and ordered a set of XP8's... Not to mention some other things
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:03 PM   #11
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Deviate, our NA8 HPDE car runs XP10/XP8 all the time with 11" Wilwoods up front and NA8 rears.
Exactly what I run on the red car. Even though it's my dedicated track car, it is street registered and sees a fair amount of street miles. No problemo for the pads.
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Old 01-17-2015, 11:06 AM   #12
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Turns out 1521's and XP are fine. I just find the XP's work better if you bed with them as opposed to bedding with 1521's. 1521's used by themselves don't need bedding anyway.
This is awesome to see.

I've been DDing my XP12 front XP10 rear because I haven't wanted to give up any brake torque performance and I've been willing to deal with dust and noise to get it. I am generally easy on brakes, but when I need them NOW, I want to have something better than a bag of spaghetti pushing on my rotors.

Looks like I need to order a set of the 1521s. Thanks!
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