do you guys prefer the stock shifter or a short shifter for the track?
#61
Exactly, and like I said I did not do an equation for work(Energy) I did it for a moment(torque). People, please get your $hit straight before coming to the table. Like I said I'm not a damn physics tutor here so stop contesting me unless you KNOW WHAT YOU"RE TALKING ABOUT!
Cliff notes:
Read here if you're new to physics.
http://www.racquetresearch.com/units.htm
Cliff notes:
Read here if you're new to physics.
http://www.racquetresearch.com/units.htm
Just in case you aren't keeping track. Here are the questions I asked you that you never answered. Because you are completely full of $hit in everything you say and really just a terrible Hustler troll that was likely too stupid to stay unbanned with their first account.
Now, lets make a short shifter so lets legenthen the top of the shifter to 12" from the fulcrum and shorten the bottom to 2".
So with the new measurements of the SS it only takes 6.5Nm to shift into gear given the forces into the tranny are the same. With that moment the force on the top of the shifter is down to only 4.85 lbs of force.
Cliff notes:
Huster(retard) will not understand this
You can effectivly shorten throw and extend the shifter while lessening effort to go into gear.
So with the new measurements of the SS it only takes 6.5Nm to shift into gear given the forces into the tranny are the same. With that moment the force on the top of the shifter is down to only 4.85 lbs of force.
Cliff notes:
Huster(retard) will not understand this
You can effectivly shorten throw and extend the shifter while lessening effort to go into gear.
You then quoted someone who could form a coherent thought and agreed with it. Even though it directly contradicted your previous statement.
Hustler, you really don't understand how it works.
The classic ebay "short" shifter is nothing more than a shorter throw without changing the actual fulcrum point. Most of these shifters only make the distance between 2-3, 4-5 shorter without actually affecting the throw and are more for bragging rights than anything.
When you change the the actual fulcrum point, by raising it... you increase the speed at which the gear selector goes from 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 etc., but leaving the actual **** in the same place. "short shifter" really is a silly name for it because a properly designed one (like the MR) where the fulcrum point is changed, usually adds length to the height of the shifter in the cabin. You can make a short shifter with the same "throw" but with a more precise gear change. Which is what a real short shifter does.
Sure, like you mention, if you raise the fulcrum point and leave the shifter at the stock height it will require more force to change the gear.
The classic ebay "short" shifter is nothing more than a shorter throw without changing the actual fulcrum point. Most of these shifters only make the distance between 2-3, 4-5 shorter without actually affecting the throw and are more for bragging rights than anything.
When you change the the actual fulcrum point, by raising it... you increase the speed at which the gear selector goes from 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 etc., but leaving the actual **** in the same place. "short shifter" really is a silly name for it because a properly designed one (like the MR) where the fulcrum point is changed, usually adds length to the height of the shifter in the cabin. You can make a short shifter with the same "throw" but with a more precise gear change. Which is what a real short shifter does.
Sure, like you mention, if you raise the fulcrum point and leave the shifter at the stock height it will require more force to change the gear.
Please show me where work was used in any part of the math above? But just to let you know no work was lost, there is just more leverage used and that's all I will say. Not going through a lesson in physics for the peanut gallery.
Now I've shown my work yours. Show yours or shut the fu.ck up.
#62
Dude, you are totally cluless. Work is a measuremet of energy. Were working with force and torque(around the fulcrum point). You also, are not worth my time. Shut it down.
Last, it would be great if you could simply use ratios to show the exact ratio of throw legenth but there's a lot more to it than that. If there was any ratio that could be close to being relevant it would be the ratio of the bottom shaft shortened to the top legenthened. Ex:
8/12 and 2/3 which would show the throw would be exactly the same while lessening the effort. Now if you made the bottom 1.9 the throw would be shorter. This also is not a perfect calculation and I will not show you how to do it. *** off
Last, it would be great if you could simply use ratios to show the exact ratio of throw legenth but there's a lot more to it than that. If there was any ratio that could be close to being relevant it would be the ratio of the bottom shaft shortened to the top legenthened. Ex:
8/12 and 2/3 which would show the throw would be exactly the same while lessening the effort. Now if you made the bottom 1.9 the throw would be shorter. This also is not a perfect calculation and I will not show you how to do it. *** off
#63
Also, another no content post that doesn't address ANY of the falsehoods in your other posts.
#66
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How is adding leverage/force/work going to make a car "shift better"? Its very simple in that if you have a problem where you cannot find a gear or can't get a gear to engage smoothly, shifting the fulcrum point is not going to help you find that gear, stop a grind, or reduce friction. It will only make it easier to bend and break things inside the trans. If your car doesn't go into gear, with the stock shifter (in good working order), its not going into gear with a $300 shift kit.
#68
Exactly, and like I said I did not do an equation for work(Energy) I did it for a moment(torque). People, please get your $hit straight before coming to the table. Like I said I'm not a damn physics tutor here so stop contesting me unless you KNOW WHAT YOU"RE TALKING ABOUT!
Cliff notes:
Read here if you're new to physics.
http://www.racquetresearch.com/units.htm
Cliff notes:
Read here if you're new to physics.
http://www.racquetresearch.com/units.htm
Anyways, I think this has turned into a ---- fight, so I will let James and Trey deal with ya
#70
The force required to push the transmission internals remains the same whatever shifter you got in there. Hell you can take off the transmission shifter in general stick your dick in there and shift like that... the force required will remain the same.
The higher the fulcrum point is the LESS force is applied on the other end therefore you need to apply more force with your hand to make up for that force.
You have a foot long shifter..
Example one (standard shifter)
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10"(.254m), bottom part is 2"(.05m)
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x.254 = 12.7M
at the bottom you have
12.7M/.05=254N
so thats 254N applied on the tranny internals.
2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" (.3m) long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8"(.2m), bottom part is 4"(.1m).
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x.2=10M
at the bottom you have
10M/.1=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.
Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.
Last edited by triple88a; 03-29-2012 at 02:16 PM.
#71
Fail ^
The force required to push the transmission internals remains the same whatever shifter you got in there. Hell you can take off the transmission shifter in general stick your dick in there and shift like that... the force required will remain the same.
The higher the fulcrum point is the LESS force is applied on the other end therefore you need to apply more force with your hand to make up for that force.
You have a foot long shifter..
Example one (standard shifter)
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10", bottom part is 2"
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x10 = 500M
at the bottom you have
500M/2=250N
so thats 250N applied on the tranny internals.
2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8", bottom part is 4".
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x8=400M
at the bottom you have
400M/4=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.
Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.
The force required to push the transmission internals remains the same whatever shifter you got in there. Hell you can take off the transmission shifter in general stick your dick in there and shift like that... the force required will remain the same.
The higher the fulcrum point is the LESS force is applied on the other end therefore you need to apply more force with your hand to make up for that force.
You have a foot long shifter..
Example one (standard shifter)
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10", bottom part is 2"
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x10 = 500M
at the bottom you have
500M/2=250N
so thats 250N applied on the tranny internals.
2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8", bottom part is 4".
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x8=400M
at the bottom you have
400M/4=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.
Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.
First...WTF is "M"? All i could find.....
http://www.convertit.com/go/converti...s.asp?letter=m
Edit:
Actually, nevermind please dont respond because I'm sure it wont be any better than the BS above.
#72
You are being silly here, Torque is rotational force. While I am not a mechanical engineer, I think its probably an inadequate or incorrect application here. We are not trying to rotate the shifter.
Anyways, I think this has turned into a ---- fight, so I will let James and Trey deal with ya
Anyways, I think this has turned into a ---- fight, so I will let James and Trey deal with ya
See whats circled in red....there is where the moment is and where there is torque. Hope this helps.
#73
#75
Example one (standard shifter)
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10"(.254m), bottom part is 2"(.05m)
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x.254 = 12.7M
at the bottom you have
12.7M/.05=254N
so thats 254N applied on the tranny internals.
2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" (.3m) long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8"(.2m), bottom part is 4"(.1m).
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x.2=10M
at the bottom you have
10M/.1=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.
M stands for momentum but seeing that you're a c student i understand if u don't know it.
Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.
No Track hes right to that point.. You calculate the force to the fulcrum and then you calculate to the last point...
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10"(.254m), bottom part is 2"(.05m)
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x.254 = 12.7M
at the bottom you have
12.7M/.05=254N
so thats 254N applied on the tranny internals.
2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" (.3m) long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8"(.2m), bottom part is 4"(.1m).
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x.2=10M
at the bottom you have
10M/.1=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.
M stands for momentum but seeing that you're a c student i understand if u don't know it.
Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.
No Track hes right to that point.. You calculate the force to the fulcrum and then you calculate to the last point...
#76
#78
First...WTF is "M"? All i could find.....
http://www.convertit.com/go/converti...s.asp?letter=m
http://www.convertit.com/go/converti...s.asp?letter=m
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque
#80
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Example one (standard shifter)
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10"(.254m), bottom part is 2"(.05m)
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x.254 = 12.7M
at the bottom you have
12.7M/.05=254N
so thats 254N applied on the tranny internals.
2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" (.3m) long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8"(.2m), bottom part is 4"(.1m).
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x.2=10M
at the bottom you have
10M/.1=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.
M stands for momentum but seeing that you're a c student i understand if u don't know it.
Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.
No Track hes right to that point.. You calculate the force to the fulcrum and then you calculate to the last point...
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10"(.254m), bottom part is 2"(.05m)
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x.254 = 12.7M
at the bottom you have
12.7M/.05=254N
so thats 254N applied on the tranny internals.
2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" (.3m) long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8"(.2m), bottom part is 4"(.1m).
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x.2=10M
at the bottom you have
10M/.1=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.
M stands for momentum but seeing that you're a c student i understand if u don't know it.
Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.
No Track hes right to that point.. You calculate the force to the fulcrum and then you calculate to the last point...