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Old 03-29-2012, 11:26 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
Exactly, and like I said I did not do an equation for work(Energy) I did it for a moment(torque). People, please get your $hit straight before coming to the table. Like I said I'm not a damn physics tutor here so stop contesting me unless you KNOW WHAT YOU"RE TALKING ABOUT!

Cliff notes:
Read here if you're new to physics.
http://www.racquetresearch.com/units.htm
You did it for torque because it conveniently omitted that you were increasing the throw "distance" in fancy physics terms. I called you out on your bullshit example since you lengthened the throw to come up with your lower numbers. Since you seem to need things to be spelled out for you so you can't use your crappy "Go learn physics" canned response. Work = force * distance and in this scenario is a constant on BOTH sides of the lever. The shift forks always need to be moved some constant amount with some constant force. (I'm intentionally making this the ideal case as friction on the fulcrum WILL change depending on how much mechanical advantage you are expecting)

Just in case you aren't keeping track. Here are the questions I asked you that you never answered. Because you are completely full of $hit in everything you say and really just a terrible Hustler troll that was likely too stupid to stay unbanned with their first account.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
Now, lets make a short shifter so lets legenthen the top of the shifter to 12" from the fulcrum and shorten the bottom to 2".

So with the new measurements of the SS it only takes 6.5Nm to shift into gear given the forces into the tranny are the same. With that moment the force on the top of the shifter is down to only 4.85 lbs of force.

Cliff notes:
Huster(retard) will not understand this
You can effectivly shorten throw and extend the shifter while lessening effort to go into gear.
Here was the only time you gave some real numbers. Here you outright state you will "effectivly shorten throw" which is completely 100% false. If I need to divide two pairs of numbers to prove it to you I will. I'll do it anyway since providing basic math as a proof of intelligence seems important to you somehow. 12/2 > 8/3. Longer throw on the cockpit side if the transmission side stays constant.

You then quoted someone who could form a coherent thought and agreed with it. Even though it directly contradicted your previous statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
Hustler, you really don't understand how it works.

The classic ebay "short" shifter is nothing more than a shorter throw without changing the actual fulcrum point. Most of these shifters only make the distance between 2-3, 4-5 shorter without actually affecting the throw and are more for bragging rights than anything.

When you change the the actual fulcrum point, by raising it... you increase the speed at which the gear selector goes from 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 etc., but leaving the actual **** in the same place. "short shifter" really is a silly name for it because a properly designed one (like the MR) where the fulcrum point is changed, usually adds length to the height of the shifter in the cabin. You can make a short shifter with the same "throw" but with a more precise gear change. Which is what a real short shifter does.

Sure, like you mention, if you raise the fulcrum point and leave the shifter at the stock height it will require more force to change the gear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
I'm just glad there's someone that understands.....
Then another patented Boost Joose claim you know nothing while being wrong. And I showed my work above since you were too stupid to divide 4 numbers yourself. I'm still waiting to here where you would use trig here. Mechanical advantage is taught to elementary school children, no trig needed son.

Quote:
Please show me where work was used in any part of the math above? But just to let you know no work was lost, there is just more leverage used and that's all I will say. Not going through a lesson in physics for the peanut gallery.
You claimed "A shorter throw" and provided the math for force showing a reduced force. To break it down for the slower less mathematically inclined among us (Boost Joose). If you multiply two numbers together (Force and Distance) to come up with a third number (Work) and reduce both Force and Distance the product of them will also decrease. So yes, you claimed a reduction in total work. (Given a constant work needed on the transmission side of the lever)


Now I've shown my work yours. Show yours or shut the fu.ck up.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:33 AM   #62
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Dude, you are totally cluless. Work is a measuremet of energy. Were working with force and torque(around the fulcrum point). You also, are not worth my time. Shut it down.

Last, it would be great if you could simply use ratios to show the exact ratio of throw legenth but there's a lot more to it than that. If there was any ratio that could be close to being relevant it would be the ratio of the bottom shaft shortened to the top legenthened. Ex:

8/12 and 2/3 which would show the throw would be exactly the same while lessening the effort. Now if you made the bottom 1.9 the throw would be shorter. This also is not a perfect calculation and I will not show you how to do it. *** off
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:37 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
Dude, you are totally cluless. Work is a measuremet of energy. Were working with force and torque(around the fulcrum point). You also, are not worth my time. Shut it down.
You're so wrong it's funny. Your mother clearly told you that you were special far too often.

Also, another no content post that doesn't address ANY of the falsehoods in your other posts.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:37 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
Dude, you are totally cluless. Work is a measuremet of energy. Were working with force and torque(around the fulcrum point). You also, are not worth my time. Shut it down.
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do you guys prefer the stock shifter or a short shifter for the track?-steven-hawking2.jpg  
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:27 PM   #65
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FWIW, Boost Joose is, for the most part correct here. I'm not getting involved in the argument and I am a mechanical engineer.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:34 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDriver View Post
FWIW, Boost Joose is, for the most part correct here. I'm not getting involved in the argument and I am a mechanical engineer.
How is adding leverage/force/work going to make a car "shift better"? Its very simple in that if you have a problem where you cannot find a gear or can't get a gear to engage smoothly, shifting the fulcrum point is not going to help you find that gear, stop a grind, or reduce friction. It will only make it easier to bend and break things inside the trans. If your car doesn't go into gear, with the stock shifter (in good working order), its not going into gear with a $300 shift kit.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:36 PM   #67
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If you put a plan on a treadmill, will it take off?
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:02 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
Exactly, and like I said I did not do an equation for work(Energy) I did it for a moment(torque). People, please get your $hit straight before coming to the table. Like I said I'm not a damn physics tutor here so stop contesting me unless you KNOW WHAT YOU"RE TALKING ABOUT!

Cliff notes:
Read here if you're new to physics.
http://www.racquetresearch.com/units.htm
You are being silly here, Torque is rotational force. While I am not a mechanical engineer, I think its probably an inadequate or incorrect application here. We are not trying to rotate the shifter.

Anyways, I think this has turned into a ---- fight, so I will let James and Trey deal with ya
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:32 PM   #69
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I am a ME, you are all wrong. None of you gays have been double clutching like you should!

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Old 03-29-2012, 02:21 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
M=Fxd

The longer the fulcrum arm the more force applied at the other end(connected to tranny) with less effort. Go take some high school physics
Fail ^
The force required to push the transmission internals remains the same whatever shifter you got in there. Hell you can take off the transmission shifter in general stick your dick in there and shift like that... the force required will remain the same.

The higher the fulcrum point is the LESS force is applied on the other end therefore you need to apply more force with your hand to make up for that force.

You have a foot long shifter..

Example one (standard shifter)

Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10"(.254m), bottom part is 2"(.05m)
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x.254 = 12.7M
at the bottom you have
12.7M/.05=254N
so thats 254N applied on the tranny internals.

2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" (.3m) long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8"(.2m), bottom part is 4"(.1m).
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x.2=10M
at the bottom you have
10M/.1=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.

Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.

Last edited by triple88a; 03-29-2012 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:56 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Fail ^
The force required to push the transmission internals remains the same whatever shifter you got in there. Hell you can take off the transmission shifter in general stick your dick in there and shift like that... the force required will remain the same.

The higher the fulcrum point is the LESS force is applied on the other end therefore you need to apply more force with your hand to make up for that force.

You have a foot long shifter..

Example one (standard shifter)

Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10", bottom part is 2"
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x10 = 500M
at the bottom you have
500M/2=250N
so thats 250N applied on the tranny internals.

2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8", bottom part is 4".
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x8=400M
at the bottom you have
400M/4=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.

Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.
lol....this is so fukt I dont even know what to say.

First...WTF is "M"? All i could find.....
http://www.convertit.com/go/converti...s.asp?letter=m

Edit:
Actually, nevermind please dont respond because I'm sure it wont be any better than the BS above.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:00 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
You are being silly here, Torque is rotational force. While I am not a mechanical engineer, I think its probably an inadequate or incorrect application here. We are not trying to rotate the shifter.

Anyways, I think this has turned into a ---- fight, so I will let James and Trey deal with ya


See whats circled in red....there is where the moment is and where there is torque. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:03 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post


See whats circled in red....there is where the moment is and where there is torque. Hope this helps.
Thats why you are wrong. You are calculating at the fulcrum, not at the little ball where all the shifting is done
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:13 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
Thats why you are wrong. You are calculating at the fulcrum, not at the little ball where all the shifting is done
lol. Now this thread is done. Any parting words, douche nozzle?
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:13 PM   #75
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Example one (standard shifter)
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10"(.254m), bottom part is 2"(.05m)
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x.254 = 12.7M
at the bottom you have
12.7M/.05=254N
so thats 254N applied on the tranny internals.

2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" (.3m) long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8"(.2m), bottom part is 4"(.1m).
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x.2=10M
at the bottom you have
10M/.1=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.


M stands for momentum but seeing that you're a c student i understand if u don't know it.

Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.


No Track hes right to that point.. You calculate the force to the fulcrum and then you calculate to the last point...
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:16 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
Thats why you are wrong. You are calculating at the fulcrum, not at the little ball where all the shifting is done
ful·crum/ˈfo͝olkrəm/Noun: 1.The point on which a lever rests or is supported

The little ball is the fulcrum
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:17 PM   #77
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----, I'm owned again!!!

Running the peanut gallery is tough work, but someone has to do it.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:18 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
First...WTF is "M"? All i could find.....
http://www.convertit.com/go/converti...s.asp?letter=m
You might want to get your money back from that fancy school of yours..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:19 PM   #79
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:20 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Example one (standard shifter)
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 10"(.254m), bottom part is 2"(.05m)
You apply 50N force at top with your hand,
so thats 50x.254 = 12.7M
at the bottom you have
12.7M/.05=254N
so thats 254N applied on the tranny internals.

2nd example is short shifter.
Shifter is still 12" (.3m) long total
Top part (hand to fulcrum) is 8"(.2m), bottom part is 4"(.1m).
You apply 50N force at the top with your hand.
So thats 50x.2=10M
at the bottom you have
10M/.1=100N
so thats only 100N applied to the tranny internals with the short shifter therefore you have to press harder with your hand on a short shifter to get the same force.


M stands for momentum but seeing that you're a c student i understand if u don't know it.

Let me draw a picture so your dumbass would understand.


No Track hes right to that point.. You calculate the force to the fulcrum and then you calculate to the last point...
Clearly, moving the fulcrum "higher" requires more force for gear selection...so it still won't ease shifting notchiness, it won't widen the gate, and it can't possibly improve feel in any way unless you address friction at the fulcrum or in teh transmission innards.
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